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Thread: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforcemen

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    The death rate is up for a reason. And it is not because a Democrat sit sin the White House.

    The focus of the Marine Corps for years has been Iraq. With that country behind us, the Marines are being sent over to Afghanistan where the aggression to destroy the enemy has picked up. The rise in troops strength has allowed the Army and the Marines to be more effective against the enemy. Instead of waiting them out or dealing with them as they emerge, we are hunting them. Now two things naturally occur when a military goes on the offense and treks into territory it was unable to do before...

    1) The death rate will rise, but no where near what the enemy is suffering

    2) And the media will provide their sorted and twisted wisdom to our dumbfounded politicians as they declare that these deaths have to mean that the Tali-Ban is gaining power.


    The choices are clear and there are only two. If the administration wants to strengthen the corrupt Afghani government, then the generals need more troops. If they do not get them then they will have to make do and lose more men than is necessary to accomplish the mission (they are very used to that anyway). But if the administration acknowledges that Pakistan is of far more interest tothe U.S. then we need to pull our troops out and simply punish our enemies as they emerge out of the Afghani mountains and deserts.
    Last edited by MSgt; 10-08-09 at 09:06 PM.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    The General says we need more troops or we're going to lose.

    The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs says we got enough troops.

    What's there to think about?
    I don't know.....Maybe a strategy for their use over there?...A clear purpose?....A way we can get the hell out of there eventually?

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    I don't know.....Maybe a strategy for their use over there?
    That's why we have generals.

    ...A clear purpose?....
    Defeat the insurgency and create a stable government.

    A way we can get the hell out of there eventually?
    Planes and boats should suffice.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    That's why we have generals.



    Defeat the insurgency and create a stable government.



    Planes and boats should suffice.
    Better rush those thoughts off to Washington!
    That should clear everything up

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    I don't know.....Maybe a strategy for their use over there?...A clear purpose?....A way we can get the hell out of there eventually?
    There is a strategy. But the mother strategy is to strengthen the Afghani government enough to fight this territorial battle without our intimate involvement.

    I do not believe this is practical. This population is nowhere near what we dealt with in Iraq. The population in Iraq was educated. It is leaps and bounds ahead in regards to social habits. It is true that historical tribal identity haunts them (and will continue to do so), but clans divide the population in Afghanistan. And they are extremely corrupt. My point is that we have to stop thinking that we can "nation build" everywhere and with any society.

    Our critics have been entirely stupid about these matters. They declared that Iraq's elections would be failures. They declared Iraq a civil war. They declared that Iraq was hopeless. And they declared Iraq another "Vietnam." They were always wrong, yet still ran their mouths as if they understood military matters and this region. They also go ahead and declare Afghanistan another "Vietnam," but they can't even get this default response to every conflict correct. In Vietnam, we supported an ever more corrupt government against a communist enemy. In the mean time, the Vietnamese were stuck between a government who cared less about them and the warring sides (American & Vietcong) that punished them for their allegiances. Where Afghanistan differs is that we aren't going to be run out of Afghanistan as the Afghani government crumbles. In the end, a corrupt Afghani government will limp along and deal with the festering Tali-Ban problem. But what we have to accept is that whatever this Afghani govenment does will be blamed on us. Same old story of the Middle East. Our critics are fond of pointing out today's enemies and how we "helped" to create them, but are to stupid to see that we are doing it right now.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    There is a strategy. But the mother strategy is to strengthen the Afghani government enough to fight this territorial battle without our intimate involvement.

    I do not believe this is practical. This population is nowhere near what we dealt with in Iraq. The population in Iraq was educated. It is leaps and bounds ahead in regards to social habits. It is true that historical tribal identity haunts them (and will continue to do so), but clans divide the population in Afghanistan. And they are extremely corrupt. My point is that we have to stop thinking that we can "nation build" everywhere and with any society.

    Our critics have been entirely stupid about these matters. They declared that Iraq's elections would be failures. They declared Iraq a civil war. They declared that Iraq was hopeless. And they declared Iraq another "Vietnam." They were always wrong, yet still ran their mouths as if they understood military matters and this region. They also go ahead and declare Afghanistan another "Vietnam," but they can't even get this default response to every conflict correct. In Vietnam, we supported an ever more corrupt government against a communist enemy. In the mean time, the Vietnamese were stuck between a government who cared less about them and the warring sides (American & Vietcong) that punished them for their allegiances. Where Afghanistan differs is that we aren't going to be run out of Afghanistan as the Afghani government crumbles. In the end, a corrupt Afghani government will limp along and deal with the festering Tali-Ban problem. But what we have to accept is that whatever this Afghani govenment does will be blamed on us. Same old story of the Middle East. Our critics are fond of pointing out today's enemies and how we "helped" to create them, but are to stupid to see that we are doing it right now.
    So why don't we just leave right now?

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    So why don't we just leave right now?
    Because the President hasn't given the order.

    But since our military is to remain there, he may as well give them what they state they need. Can our military continue punishing and killing the enemy here with the present numbers? Absolutely. But one should never go to war with "just enough" (Even Rumsfeld has to be able to admit this behind closed doors.) It lengthens the conflict, expends more treasure, and creates an environment that is more dangerous than it has to be; not ony for our troops but also for the civilian population.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    Because the President hasn't given the order.

    But since our military is to remain there, he may as well give them what they state they need. Can our military continue punishing and killing the enemy here with the present numbers? Absolutely. But one should never go to war with "just enough" (Even Rumsfeld has to be able to admit this behind closed doors.) It lengthens the conflict, expends more treasure, and creates an environment that is more dangerous than it has to be; not ony for our troops but also for the civilian population.
    So you agree that since we will be leaving one of these days....Why not tomorrow & save some GI lives?

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    So you agree that since we will be leaving one of these days....Why not tomorrow & save some GI lives?
    I believe that the best move we can make is to vacate Afgahnistan. We can continue to hunt down our enemies via UAVs and special forces launched from ships. "Nation building" is only beneficial if the nation is capable of being anything other than corrupt. As it is, we are merely going to be blamed for anything it does. If the Afghani government goes on to assasinate a few opposition leaders or slaughter a few hundred people who oppose them politically, then we will be blamed.

    Afghanistan isn't worth it. Our focus in this territory needs to be Pakistan.

    But since we aren't vacating, the best thing the administration can do is give the military what it needs so that less have to die.
    Last edited by MSgt; 10-08-09 at 11:22 PM.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    Because the President hasn't given the order.

    But since our military is to remain there, he may as well give them what they state they need. Can our military continue punishing and killing the enemy here with the present numbers? Absolutely. But one should never go to war with "just enough" (Even Rumsfeld has to be able to admit this behind closed doors.) It lengthens the conflict, expends more treasure, and creates an environment that is more dangerous than it has to be; not ony for our troops but also for the civilian population.
    The problem is that the military is divided on what they need, and what the right strategy is. Until the strategy going forward is known, troop level decisions are premature.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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