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Thread: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforcemen

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    The Soviets had close to half a million men in Afghanistan and still lost the war.

    The problem here is that the American people do not seem to be willing to make the kind of sacrifice that is needed to win there. It's pretty much the same with Iraq. Bush told us to go shopping, and Obama? He pretty much says nothing, which is just as bad. To win over there will take a huge sacrifice, and that message has to be made by our leaders. Whether it is Bush or Obama, nobody has led the American people, or talked honestly about what it would take. I also believe that, if a president talked honestly to the American people about what it takes to win, his party would lose big in the next election. Simply put, the American people are war weary, and IMHO, that IS the problem. That, along with the old adage "You can't fight a war on the cheap and expect to win", says it all.
    I agree & think the answer is that this is not a war that Obama ever wanted & wants to figure out a way to get out of it. He's trapped by his campaign promises but is smart enough to know throwing more American lives & more money will not lead to "Victory"...which is nebulous concept in a war like that anyway.
    I like his concept of training the Afghans to take over their security & getting our boys & girls home.

    Every military commander will always want more troops. The smart thing to do is decide what purpose would be they serve BEFORE you comit to sending more. If training is the new goal...I say great!...Have enough trainers to do it & then get the hell out of there,.
    Last edited by Devil505; 10-07-09 at 08:45 PM.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    I like his concept of training the Afghans to take over their security & getting our boys & girls home.
    That takes a long time to achieve in tribal societies.
    "The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without."

    ~Dwight D. Eisenhower

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    If this is what you took from our conversation, then further discussion is futile.
    I missed this post earlier.
    Nice to see that you evidently won't debate anyone who disagrees with you, eh? (Not just us "Old Men"?)
    TacticalEvilDan didn't question your military bona fides......Why not continue to debate him??
    Last edited by Devil505; 10-07-09 at 08:55 PM.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    McChrystal wants 40K more troops for what? Securing the population? Conservative estimates from DC think tanks put the number at 300K troops to secure the Afghans. Sounds like GEN McChrystal isn't asking for enough.

    The problem is that we won't do what it takes to win there. We will half-ass it just like we have for the last nine years. JUST LIKE BUSH DID, ALSO (just so the right-wingers remember).

    If victory in AFG is defined as securing the Afghans to create an environment for a stable democracy, then forget it. It happened in Iraq (kind of), but Iraq is not third-world and they aren't cavemen.

    This is something I posted on the "Should we get out of AFG" thread:

    OK, there are some things that need to be said on this thread.
    Truths about 9/11:

    The 9/11 terrorists did not prepare for the 9/11 attacks in terrorist training camps in Afghanistan by climbing on monkey bars, crawling under barbedwire and aimlessly firing AK-47s into the desert. They plotted 9/11 by researching weaknesses and antiquated hijack policies and procedures in the commercial travel industry in America. They used and abused the rediculous U.S. student visa and green card policies. They enrolled in an American flight school and trained to fly by dayÖand enjoyed Gentlemenís clubs by night.

    Those attacks were plotted over chai tea by organized criminals. Not over a campfire by battle-hardened insurgents.

    If the leaders of this country were SERIOUS about battling terrorism and protecting our country, we would:
    -Racially profile at U.S. airports and pressure other nations to do so.
    -Deny visas to any Arab male aged 18-50 named Mohammed or something similar
    -Protect our borders where they are vulnerable
    -Secure our ports and conduct rigorous inspection of incoming cargo.
    -See that the majority of our Homeland Security money goes to major target cities and landmarks.
    -Continue warrantless wiretapping international phone calls from and to suspected terror suspects.
    -Keep Guantanamo open and full.

    But we wonít do these things because they arenít politically correct or acceptable by some in power. They would rather send American boys to die in a wasteland that has absolutely no chance in hell of ever becoming a functioning democracy of any kind. The people in Afghanistan are cavemen. They are too far behind the times to understand what we are trying to do for them. Furthermore, we do not possess the resources, manpower, military capability or political will to truly secure that country and make it a functioning democracy, rid of all Islamic fanatics. Even if we did, it is an impossible task. None of this matters anyway, because a free and democratic Afghanistan does not mean we are safe from terrorists. They can just pick up and move. Like they did from Sudan to Afghanistan; they can and will move again. Will we follow them and bring democracy to the next countryÖand the next, and the next?

    Nation-building in the name of protection from terror is a senseless strategy that will not work. The military isnít designed for it and not particularly good at it. Bush was wrong to do it and Obama is wrong to keep doing it.
    I think it's pertinent here too.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    OK...I tried......It's your thread & you started by attacking Obama & now you are attacking me with your "Old Man" BS again!

    Who do you think you are that no one is allowed to question your bona fides when you attack the CinC & won't provide unemotional reasons for it??

    This is a DEBATE forum...... not a "Take my word for it" forum.



    You tried? You tried jack **** old man. You lied, decieved, built a strawman and attacked my service. What you tried at, like usual, you failed.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    I missed this post earlier.
    Nice to see that you evidently won't debate anyone who disagrees with you, eh? (Not just us "Old Men"?)
    TacticalEvilDan didn't question your military bona fides......Why not continue to debate him??



    I respect TED, I just think if that is what he boiled our conversation down to, then I was done. I think, he would be far more willing to re-evaluate his statement and re-approach me and this topic differently. While you will continue with strawmen, attacks on my service, and lies.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    You tried? You tried jack **** old man. You lied, decieved, built a strawman and attacked my service. What you tried at, like usual, you failed.
    I guess it will always be up to the readers to decide that. Not you...Not me.....& not a few partisan allies who scream & yell on this thread either.
    (you guys do love that word Strawman though, eh?)

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    I guess it will always be up to the readers to decide that. Not you...Not me.....& not a few partisan allies who scream & yell on this thread either.



    I wasn't the one who was told to "stfu" by someone on "my side"....
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I wasn't the one who was told to "stfu" by someone on "my side"....
    Why not continue to debate him then? What are you afraid of? (his remarks were courteous & on topic....Why stop talking to him too?)
    Last edited by Devil505; 10-07-09 at 09:17 PM.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Why not continue to debate him then? What are you afraid of?


    Nothing. TED can talk to me anytime he wishes. Go Troll elsewhere old man.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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