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Thread: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforcemen

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucky View Post
    You responded pretty fast....And showed you read nothing that was posted.
    So you are denying the the civilian President (Truman) fired General MacArthur? .(whatever the background was)

    WikiAnswers - Why did Truman fire MacArthur

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    And, if that's the case, he's definitely micromanaging the situation, which will lead to no good.
    No, if that's the case he's being a good manager. Micromanaging would be telling them in detail how to do their jobs (or even worse, giving orders directly to their subordinates).

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    And, you wouldn't neccessarily be correct in that opinion, either. In my opinion, making the decision doesn't take that long.
    You don't think it takes some time to make a decision that involves the lives of tens of thousands more American servicemen and -women?

    Oh, okay.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    So you are denying the the civilian President (Truman) fired General MacArthur? .(whatever the background was)

    WikiAnswers - Why did Truman fire MacArthur
    Here,go ahead and ignore what I posted again-


    Quote Originally Posted by Strucky View Post
    Seemed as if Truman was considering using them himself...nice try though-

    US threat of atomic warfare

    In The Origins of the Korean War (1981, 1990), US historian Bruce Cumings reports that in a 30 November 1950 press conference, President Truman's allusions to attacking the KPA with atomic bombs “was a threat based on contingency planning to use the bomb, rather than the faux pas so many assumed it to be.” The President sought to dismiss Gen. MacArthur from theater command because his insubordination demonstrated his political unreliability: A US Army officer who might disobey his civilian Commander in Chief about using or not using atomic bombs. Also on 30 November 1950, the USAF Strategic Air Command was ordered to “augment its capacities, and that this should include atomic capabilities.” In 1951, the US escalated closest to atomic warfare in Korea, because the PRC had deployed new armies to the Sino-Korean frontier, thus, at the Kadena USAF Base, Okinawa, pit crews assembled atomic bombs for Korean warfare, “lacking only the essential nuclear cores.”

    On 5 April 1950, the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) issued orders for the retaliatory atomic-bombing of Manchurian PRC military bases, if either their armies crossed into Korea or if PRC or KPA bombers attacked Korea from there. The President ordered transferred nine Mark-IV nuclear capsules “to the Air Force’s Ninth Bomb Group, the designated carrier of the weapons ... [and] signed an order to use them against Chinese and Korean targets”—which he never transmitted, having out-witted the JCS to agreeing to sack the insubordinate Soldier MacArthur (announced 10 April 1950), and because neither the PRC nor USSR likewise escalated the war.[44][verification needed]

    Moreover (and contradictorily), President Truman also remarked that his government were actively considering using the atomic bomb to end the war in Korea (implying that Gen. MacArthur would control it), but that only he—the US President—commanded atomic bomb use, and that he had not given authorization. For the matter of atomic warfare was solely a US decision, not the collective decision of the UN—hence his 4 December 1950 meeting with UK PM Clement Attlee (and Commonwealth spokesman), French Premier René Pleven, and Foreign Minister Robert Schuman to discuss their worries about Korean atomic warfare and its likely continental expansion. The Indian Ambassador, Panikkar, reports, "that Truman announced that he was thinking of using the atom bomb in Korea. But the Chinese seemed totally unmoved by this threat ... The propaganda against American aggression was stepped up. The 'Aid Korea to resist America' campaign was made the slogan for increased production, greater national integration, and more rigid control over anti-national activities. One could not help feeling that Truman's threat came in very useful to the leaders of the Revolution, to enable them to keep up the tempo of their activities
    Did I at ANY point deny MacArthur was fired?
    "The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without."

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Okay, and what do you think would be "that many?" Are you arguing that we need a certain uniform concentration per square mile before we have "that many?"
    You do realize that 17,000 soldiers is only one division, right? The US Army and Marine Corps consist of 22 combat divisions + 4 independent brigade combat teams.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucky View Post
    Here,go ahead and ignore what I posted again-




    Did I at ANY point deny MacArthur was fired?
    Truman's initial considerations are not the question here.....His final decision is all that matters & the fact that HE gets the final decision....Not his generals.
    That's kinda the whole point here.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    I think we are answering the basic question in about 3 separate threads here.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Truman's initial considerations are not the question here.....His final decision is all that matters & the fact that HE gets the final decision....Not his generals.
    That's kinda the whole point here.
    No,you were insisting that it was only MacArther that wanted to nuke China...I showed you that Truman was on the same page and even ordered the deployment of nuclear weapons to the Korean theater.

    Try again.
    "The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without."

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    No, if that's the case he's being a good manager. Micromanaging would be telling them in detail how to do their jobs (or even worse, giving orders directly to their subordinates).
    They're telling him what they need to do their jobs. he seems to think they're all fll of ****. That's micromanaging, to be sure.



    You don't think it takes some time to make a decision that involves the lives of tens of thousands more American servicemen and -women?

    Oh, okay.
    It doesn't take long when you already got soldiers on the ground need help, unless you just wanna say, "screw'em", and just let'em deal with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You do realize that 17,000 soldiers is only one division, right? The US Army and Marine Corps consist of 22 combat divisions + 4 independent brigade combat teams.
    Sorry, but I have an awfully hard time of using the word "only" when I think of 17,000 soldiers.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Truman's initial considerations are not the question here.....His final decision is all that matters & the fact that HE gets the final decision....Not his generals.
    That's kinda the whole point here.
    No, it isn't.

    The "whole point here" is that the President isn't making a decision (he's waffling), not that he's the one to make it.

    This is why it's a strawman, dude. You lose yet again.
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