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Thread: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforcemen

  1. #181
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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Are you saying they're just bagging the whole thing?

    If it was such a "comprehensive strategy," it should be able to weather a few things going the wrong way, and it should anticipate that the unexpected would happen.
    I agree. Obviously, this is more serious than "a few things going the wrong way."

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    There weren't that many more troops committed back in March; a simple request for more shouldn't send him into such a spin.
    You don't think 17,000 more troops, which at the time represented an increase of 50%, is "many more?"

    Oh, okay.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  2. #182
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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Because common sense should dictate that if your Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, your CENTCOM commander and your theater command are all of the same opinion, it shouldn't take this long to make a decision.
    Unless, of course, the situation is more complicated than we'd like to think it is.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  3. #183
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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucky View Post
    We are talking about the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
    You're right, I saw your comment out of context when I got bumped to the latest post. My bad.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  4. #184
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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post

    Sadly for you, this is wrong. If someone's post is a fallacy -- and a strawman certainly is -- then it's 100% legit to say so.

    And that's simply the way it is in a debate. You lose.
    My post was not a strawman just because you say it was.
    You again try to state your opinions as facts.
    Winning & losing this debate is not the important thing nor is it your decision to make.

  5. #185
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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    He doesn't need military experience. That's what he's got advisors and the Joint Chiefs of Staff for.
    Ok, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs agrees with the theater commander's assessment. Now what? Is PBO going to just discount everyone's opinion until he finally finds someone to tell him what he wants to hear?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  6. #186
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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I agree. Obviously, this is more serious than "a few things going the wrong way."
    So, you are saying they're bagging the whole thing?


    You don't think 17,000 more troops, which at the time represented an increase of 50%, is "many more?"

    Oh, okay.
    Apparently not, if ~ 40,000 more are needed.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  7. #187
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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Ok, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs agrees with the theater commander's assessment. Now what? Is PBO going to just discount everyone's opinion until he finally finds someone to tell him what he wants to hear?
    Isn't that exactly what GW Bush did?

  8. #188
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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    So Truman should have let MacArthur drop A-bombs on China in the 1950's?
    Seemed as if Truman was considering using them himself...nice try though-

    US threat of atomic warfare

    In The Origins of the Korean War (1981, 1990), US historian Bruce Cumings reports that in a 30 November 1950 press conference, President Truman's allusions to attacking the KPA with atomic bombs “was a threat based on contingency planning to use the bomb, rather than the faux pas so many assumed it to be.” The President sought to dismiss Gen. MacArthur from theater command because his insubordination demonstrated his political unreliability: A US Army officer who might disobey his civilian Commander in Chief about using or not using atomic bombs. Also on 30 November 1950, the USAF Strategic Air Command was ordered to “augment its capacities, and that this should include atomic capabilities.” In 1951, the US escalated closest to atomic warfare in Korea, because the PRC had deployed new armies to the Sino-Korean frontier, thus, at the Kadena USAF Base, Okinawa, pit crews assembled atomic bombs for Korean warfare, “lacking only the essential nuclear cores.”

    On 5 April 1950, the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) issued orders for the retaliatory atomic-bombing of Manchurian PRC military bases, if either their armies crossed into Korea or if PRC or KPA bombers attacked Korea from there. The President ordered transferred nine Mark-IV nuclear capsules “to the Air Force’s Ninth Bomb Group, the designated carrier of the weapons ... [and] signed an order to use them against Chinese and Korean targets”—which he never transmitted, having out-witted the JCS to agreeing to sack the insubordinate Soldier MacArthur (announced 10 April 1950), and because neither the PRC nor USSR likewise escalated the war.[44][verification needed]

    Moreover (and contradictorily), President Truman also remarked that his government were actively considering using the atomic bomb to end the war in Korea (implying that Gen. MacArthur would control it), but that only he—the US President—commanded atomic bomb use, and that he had not given authorization. For the matter of atomic warfare was solely a US decision, not the collective decision of the UN—hence his 4 December 1950 meeting with UK PM Clement Attlee (and Commonwealth spokesman), French Premier René Pleven, and Foreign Minister Robert Schuman to discuss their worries about Korean atomic warfare and its likely continental expansion. The Indian Ambassador, Panikkar, reports, "that Truman announced that he was thinking of using the atom bomb in Korea. But the Chinese seemed totally unmoved by this threat ... The propaganda against American aggression was stepped up. The 'Aid Korea to resist America' campaign was made the slogan for increased production, greater national integration, and more rigid control over anti-national activities. One could not help feeling that Truman's threat came in very useful to the leaders of the Revolution, to enable them to keep up the tempo of their activities
    "The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without."

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    My post was not a strawman just because you say it was.
    You again try to state your opinions as facts.
    Winning & losing this debate is not the important thing nor is it your decision to make.
    It was a strawman because you were arguing against a point which nobody made.

    Thus, you lose again.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  10. #190
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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Unless, of course, the situation is more complicated than we'd like to think it is.
    Well, if the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the CENTCOM commander don't see any complications, then no one else should either. If anyone knows the condition of of the United States military as a whole, it would be the Chairman of the JCS. All three branches report directly to him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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