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Thread: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforcemen

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Source, please?



    Seriously?



    Have you been on a bender for the past few months? (I kid)


    Gen. McChrystal talked to Obama once - Washington Times
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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    I'll admit that this surprised me at first, until I realized the absolute absurdity of your point.

    You, a military man, are objecting to the fact that this general has spoken directly to the President of the United States "only once" in the last 70 days.

    Are you seriously expecting me to believe that the chain of command leads directly from McChrystal to Obama? What about the Secretary of Defense? What about the Joint Chiefs?

    It is not General McChrystal's job to talk to the President. It is also not his job to step outside the chain of command.

    You almost had me for a second, Rev, I'll give you that much.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So, here were go again, with the notion that as CIC, the president, especially Obama, can throw the rules and regulations out the window and do whatever the hell he wants. Sorry, but that's not the way it is out in the real world. If the president fails to give the proper support to soldiers on the battlefield, without damn good reason, it could be considered a dereliction of duty. Unless, you can prove otherwise. Can you?

    Dereliction of duty is an impeachable offense. mmm, mmm, mmm
    Using your logic, George W. Bush should have been impeached for:

    1. Invading Iraq with too few troops. Army Chief of Staff Eric Shinseki was ignored for having the temerity to suggest this was the case, and was thereafter, Shinseki's influence on the Joint Chiefs of Staff reportedly waned. Should Bush have done exactly what Shinseki suggested, as you insist Obama should do with McChrystal's advice?

    Well, he didn't. Your "impeach him!" logic fails.

    1a. On November 15, 2006, in testimony before Congress, CENTCOM Commander Gen. John Abizaid said that General Shinseki had been correct that more troops were needed. Should Bush have listened to Shinseki AND Abizaid and followed their advice, as you insist Obama should do with McChrystal's advice?

    Well, he didn't. Your "impeach him!" logic fails.

    2. Sending troops into Iraq with insufficient body armor, tank armor, and more. Should Bush have listened to Shinseki's AND Abizaid's recommendations, as you insist Obama should do with McChrystal's recommendations?

    Well, he didn't. Your "impeach him!" logic fails.

    GIs Lack Armor, Radios, Bullets

    Iraq-bound soldiers confront Rumsfeld over lack of armor

    Soldiers in Iraq still buying their own body armor


    At least you understand that.

    Last edited by Glinda; 10-07-09 at 01:19 PM.

  4. #104
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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    The top and bottom of it is Afghanistan certainly does need reinforcements. Its a shame we have to look 'too the old reliables' as usual
    But considering the real support for the war-on a global scale, and i mean real support, not lip service the burden lies with the few.

    In answer to the question Obama is wise to consider, consider an achievable goal and get this mess back on track.

    Paul
    RIP THE EUROPEAN FORUM 2016

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by gunner View Post

    In answer to the question Obama is wise to consider, consider an achievable goal and get this mess back on track.

    Paul
    I think therein lays the problem. There is no goal in Afghanistan for our military that is remotely achievable.
    As far as Obama doing the right thing or not.......I'd much rather have a President who doesn't shoot from the hip or make major decision based on what his "Gut" tells him.I think Obama is trying to formulate an achievable strategy for us over there. Anyone who uses the term "Win" or "Lose" doesn't understand the reality of the ME.
    Last edited by Devil505; 10-07-09 at 02:19 PM.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    I think therein lays the problem. There is no goal in Afghanistan for our military that is remotely achievable.
    As far as Obama doing the right thing or not.......I'd much rather have a President who doesn't shoot from the hip or make major decision based on what his "Gut" tells him.I think Obama is trying to formulate an achievable strategy for us over there. Anyone who uses the term "Win" or "Lose" doesn't understand the reality of the ME.
    I was a bit hasty when I said the above. An achievable, realistic goal for us would be the training of Afghan forces & then getting the hell out of there. We can fight Al Quieda with UAV's & small mobile forces that don't require pinning down thousands of our troop as targets.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    He announced that he had a "comprehensive strategy" back in March, which was reached after a "careful policy review."

    The White House - Blog Post - A New Strategy for Afghanistan and Pakistan

    Its goal?

    So I want the American people to understand that we have a clear and focused goal: to disrupt, dismantle and defeat al Qaeda in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and to prevent their return to either country in the future. That's the goal that must be achieved. That is a cause that could not be more just.
    Obama's words, not mine.

    So, what happened? Why is he taking months to decide what to do now?
    Last edited by Harshaw; 10-07-09 at 02:55 PM.
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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    He announced that he had a "comprehensive strategy" back in March, which was reached after a "careful policy review."

    The White House - Blog Post - A New Strategy for Afghanistan and Pakistan

    Its goal?



    Obama's words, not mine.

    So, what happened? Why is he taking months to decide what to do now?
    Here's the President's words right from your link: (my emphasis added)
    At the same time, we will shift the emphasis of our mission to training and increasing the size of Afghan security forces, so that they can eventually take the lead in securing their country. That's how we will prepare Afghans to take responsibility for their security, and how we will ultimately be able to bring our own troops home.

    The new emphasis will be to train Afghan force so they can eventually "take responsibility for their security, and how we will ultimately be able to bring our own troops home."

    That's an achievable goal & one I agree with...Training Afghan troops.
    But let's do it quickly & with a much smaller footprint than we now have in Afghanistan.
    Last edited by Devil505; 10-07-09 at 03:04 PM.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    It doesn't answer the question.

    He had a "comprehensive strategy" after "careful policy review."

    He was still following that strategy as of his July remarks on it.

    Now, he's been publicly indecisive for over a month now.

    What happened between July and September which warrants another lengthy review process -- if he had already done that work and formed a "comprehensive strategy"?

    How appropriate is it, by the way, that according to yesterday's NYT, this is one of the works of art chosen to adorn the White House for his term?

    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I'll admit that this surprised me at first, until I realized the absolute absurdity of your point.

    You, a military man, are objecting to the fact that this general has spoken directly to the President of the United States "only once" in the last 70 days.

    Are you seriously expecting me to believe that the chain of command leads directly from McChrystal to Obama? What about the Secretary of Defense? What about the Joint Chiefs?

    It is not General McChrystal's job to talk to the President. It is also not his job to step outside the chain of command.

    You almost had me for a second, Rev, I'll give you that much.



    Circle the wagons.


    He was asked how many times he spoke to the President, he answered. you all are losing on the facts so attacking the General is the next step.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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