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Thread: Is Extremism Becoming Mainstream?

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    Re: Is Extremism Becoming Mainstream?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    To truly break the two party system, we'd need fundemental Constitutional changes in how voting is done in this country.
    The problem with breaking down the system into more parties is that it would be much harder to gain a majority vote... If the system was changed to allow a plurality decision, then we open the door to the possibility of a candidate winning the presidency for winning just a single big state--not good either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    That doesn't mean that a big tent moderate libertarian based party couldn't potentially emerge as a major party.
    This is the best scenario I'd say. Third parties have been propelled suddenly into prominence as one of the two major parties before, but this is rare-- one major party incumbent to the system has to be broken up and swept out.

    I think it'd be better if our system didn't allow for more parties to gain prominence simultaneously, but instead shifted who the actual two main parties were more often. Parties should be less all-encompassing and die more often--hopefully to refresh the system.
    Last edited by other; 09-30-09 at 12:26 AM.

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    Re: Is Extremism Becoming Mainstream?

    A great many people simply have not cared to research American political history or contemporary politics to begin with. From a distance, I am sure that to many people the United States government is some insurmountable force that holds an almost God-like power over human events.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Is Extremism Becoming Mainstream?

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    The problem with breaking down the system into more parties is that it would be much harder to gain a majority vote... If the system was changed to allow a plurality decision, then we open the door to the possibility of a candidate winning the presidency for winning just a single big state--not good either.
    As I said, fundamental Constitutional changes need to be made. In the case of Presidential elections, I'd propose a ranked voting system - which would eliminate the wasted vote syndrome. Say my ballot looked like this ...

    1. Bob Barr
    2. Chuck Baldwin
    2. John McCain
    3. Barak Obama

    For the sake of simplicity say these 4 were the only candidates running. The first round all the votes are tallied up based on the first ranked candidate (in my case Barr). If no majority is reached, the lowest vote getter is eliminated then and the ballots listinghim as the first choice are then counted for however is listed second. Let's say Baldwin was the lowest vote getter and he's eliminated. So my ballot still counts for Barr.

    In the second round, if no majority is reached, the same thing happens. Low man is eliminated and his ballots are reassigned to the next highest candidate still in the running. So let's say Barr is eliminated, and Baldwin is already out, so my vote now goes to McCain.

    This kind of system let's voters vote for whoever they feel is the best choice without worrying about wasting their vote for a non-contender. In our current system, if I think McCain is nominally better than Obama, I increase Obama's chances by voting third party, since I would've otherwise voted for McCain. Here, that's not a problem. I can vote for who I like best without worrying about if I "helped" the candidate I least support.

    This is the best scenario I'd say. Third parties have been propelled suddenly into prominence as one of the two major parties before, but this is rare-- one major party incumbent to the system has to be broken up and swept out.

    I think it'd be better if our system didn't allow for more parties to gain prominence simultaneously, but instead shifted who the actual two main parties were more often. Parties should be less all-encompassing and die more often--hopefully to refresh the system.
    The problem is the system promotes a two party set up and those two parties once established, seek to entrench themselves. I don't see any practical way for the system to encourage parties to "die off" more often. What we should do is encourage more parties or factions as Madison called them, thereby making it more difficult for anyone party or faction to gain too much influence.
    Slipping into madness is good for the sake of comparison - Unknown.

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    Re: Is Extremism Becoming Mainstream?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    What we should do is encourage more parties or factions as Madison called them, thereby making it more difficult for anyone party or faction to gain too much influence.
    That is also the problem with that notion. Having far too many viable political parties reduces their mandate and can create political instability.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Is Extremism Becoming Mainstream?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    [............. I'd propose a ranked voting system .........................]
    It seems like it'd be difficult to implement, but I like that alternative--hadn't heard of it before.
    Last edited by other; 09-30-09 at 12:51 AM.

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    Re: Is Extremism Becoming Mainstream?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    That is also the problem with that notion. Having far too many viable political parties reduces their mandate and can create political instability.
    I'm not quite sure about that. Many European countries have pluralist systems and are stable. Germany, to pick one example, has 6 parties that currently hold a seat in parliament and a number of other minor parties that failed to meet the threshold to have a seat in parliament.
    Slipping into madness is good for the sake of comparison - Unknown.

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    Re: Is Extremism Becoming Mainstream?

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    It seems like it'd be difficult to implement, but I like that alternative--hadn't heard of it before.
    It's different, but not particularly difficult to implement. It's used in various elections around the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Instant-runoff voting is used to elect members of the Australian House of Representatives,[2] the President of Ireland,[3] the national parliament of Papua New Guinea, and the Fijian House of Representatives.[4] It is also employed by several jurisdictions in the United States, including San Francisco, California, Minneapolis, Minnesota[5] and Pierce County, Washington.

    Instant-runoff voting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Slipping into madness is good for the sake of comparison - Unknown.

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    Re: Is Extremism Becoming Mainstream?

    WHEN exactly did 2% become "mainstream? I must'a missed something!

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