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Thread: Is Extremism Becoming Mainstream?

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    Re: Is Extremism Becoming Mainstream?

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    I'm fine with that. The "shot" I was referring to was a chance in the nationally televised debates. This would educate the general populace on the views and beliefs of third parties.


    You misunderstand. I only want the Libertarian party to run the country if they are elected to do so. I wish that the hindrances and obstacles put in the paths of third parties would be removed.
    Until the libertarians can get a decent number of members, they should not be taking away from those who have a real chance to win in a debate. Any one who wants to know about libertarians can go to their website quite easily(I did this to get an actual list of their stance on issues). Of course, you don't really want people to go to the website, since seeing some of the libertarian stance on issues would repel people. A debate is much easier to avoid the tricky stuff like legalizing drugs, deregulating the health care industry, loosening immigration laws and virtual amnesty for illegals...

    The obstacle to libertarians gaining office is the libertarian platform. It's time you all manned up and admitted it's not a conspiracy to keep you down, it's the fact that most people think you guys are nutty.

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    Re: Is Extremism Becoming Mainstream?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Until the libertarians can get a decent number of members, they should not be taking away from those who have a real chance to win in a debate. Any one who wants to know about libertarians can go to their website quite easily(I did this to get an actual list of their stance on issues). Of course, you don't really want people to go to the website, since seeing some of the libertarian stance on issues would repel people. A debate is much easier to avoid the tricky stuff like legalizing drugs, deregulating the health care industry, loosening immigration laws and virtual amnesty for illegals...

    The obstacle to libertarians gaining office is the libertarian platform. It's time you all manned up and admitted it's not a conspiracy to keep you down, it's the fact that most people think you guys are nutty.
    It's apparent you're not interested in actually discussing the flaws in the presidential debates and, for that matter, the race. Have a nice day.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Is Extremism Becoming Mainstream?

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    It's apparent you're not interested in actually discussing the flaws in the presidential debates and, for that matter, the race. Have a nice day.
    What you see as flaws are not flaws though. Libertarians and other third party nuts use excuses that they call "flaws to the system", when the fact is, the reason they are not getting votes is simply that people do not believe in their platforms. When Libertarians stop making excuses and start trying to represent more people, then they will succeed, but no change to the election law will do it.

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    Re: Is Extremism Becoming Mainstream?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Ironically, this is exactly what is happening here, though with you and not Redress being the fanatic.
    No, democracy is in fact a religion - and not a particularly good one, because no democracy seems to be able to last more then a couple of centuries, much less a few thousand years. Your blind faith in the "divine right" of the majority to initiate aggression has no rational justification.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Erm, if 51% voted for it, it is by definition not extremist....
    Genocidal dictators throughout history thank you for exonerating them.

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    Re: Is Extremism Becoming Mainstream?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Erm, if 51% voted for it, it is by definition not extremist....
    The majority can be, and often is, wrong.

    "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner....freedom is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote."

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    Re: Is Extremism Becoming Mainstream?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    The majority can be, and often is, wrong.

    "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner....freedom is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote."
    I didn't say it wasn't wrong, I just said it wasn't extremist.

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    Re: Is Extremism Becoming Mainstream?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    I didn't say it wasn't wrong, I just said it wasn't extremist.
    I'd have to classify that as semantics. If 51% vote themselves the right to rape the other 49%, we could arguably call it "mainstream thinking"... but all it means it that the "mainstream" has lost their freaking minds...

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    Re: Is Extremism Becoming Mainstream?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    What you see as flaws are not flaws though. Libertarians and other third party nuts use excuses that they call "flaws to the system", when the fact is, the reason they are not getting votes is simply that people do not believe in their platforms. When Libertarians stop making excuses and start trying to represent more people, then they will succeed, but no change to the election law will do it.
    So you think that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the current presidential debates? That the majority of the people only get to watch two candidates discuss issues? You see no inherent flaw to this?
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Is Extremism Becoming Mainstream?

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    So you think that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the current presidential debates? That the majority of the people only get to watch two candidates discuss issues? You see no inherent flaw to this?
    Two, or three(remember Perot). I have no problem with the televised debates requiring candidates to get at least 10 % or so support in polls to be included. If you cannot do that, you are not going to win anyway.

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    Re: Is Extremism Becoming Mainstream?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Until the libertarians can get a decent number of members, they should not be taking away from those who have a real chance to win in a debate. Any one who wants to know about libertarians can go to their website quite easily(I did this to get an actual list of their stance on issues). Of course, you don't really want people to go to the website, since seeing some of the libertarian stance on issues would repel people. A debate is much easier to avoid the tricky stuff like legalizing drugs, deregulating the health care industry, loosening immigration laws and virtual amnesty for illegals...

    The obstacle to libertarians gaining office is the libertarian platform. It's time you all manned up and admitted it's not a conspiracy to keep you down, it's the fact that most people think you guys are nutty.
    It is true the Libertarian Party is pretty extreme and outside the mainstream. In fact, if you think the current platform is extreme, you should look up what the platform was like before a reform movement in the party gutted the really nutty stuff. The LP, as it currently exists, will never be a major party because its a party run by fringe extremists. That doesn't mean that a big tent moderate libertarian based party couldn't potentially emerge as a major party.

    However, it would also be wrong to pretend that our system doesn't encourage a two party set up and that the two mainstream parties run the system and use their power to further their entrenchment. As much as I admire the founding fathers, I think one of their greatest oversights was setting up a system that naturally favored the creation of two huge coalition style parties. Madison himself wrote in the Federalist Papers how having many factions competing for power is key to preventing any one faction from having too much power.

    You also anyone can go on the internet and look up about the libertarians and their candidate, which is true, but I think we both know the typical voter is not that proactive. He's going to get his information from the mainstream media (TV, newspaper) and make his decision from there. And major media focuses on the Republican and Democratic candidates almost exclusively. Its easy to mistakenly think the American electorate is as informed and interested in politics as the general population here at DP, but it would be a mistake. Most folks I talk to don't know what a libertarian is, or that there is a Libertarian Party. I'd like to see more candidates included in the debates, at least early on in the election season. The field can be narrowed as the elections get closer. I don't see any possible harm coming from letting more candidates get their message out. I don't think that change alone would break the two party system, but it would be a start. To truly break the two party system, we'd need fundemental Constitutional changes in how voting is done in this country.
    Slipping into madness is good for the sake of comparison - Unknown.

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