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Thread: A new study finds that a majority of physicians support the creation of a public heal

  1. #51
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    Re: A new study finds that a majority of physicians support the creation of a public

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Reread the poll question.

    45% will consider leaving the medical profession or retiring early.

    Setting aside the fact that this obviously includes a large percentage who would not consider retiring now, but might consider it later, what percent of practicing physicians do you think could retire from full-time practice tomorrow and live off their savings? I'd say it's probably pretty significant.
    Then about half of all doctors have right-wing sentiments and have no problem making empty threats. Saying you will consider quitting when a poll to that effect comes your way is a pretty easy thing to do, but it isn't a very credible warning if anything else in your life is important to you aside from your politics.

    As for your concern: no, the number is not significant. Doctors tend to lead more expensive lifestyles than those of other professions. Those up to their mid-40s might be able to retire, but only at the expense of the kind of golden years they have been envisioning for themselves for the last couple of decades, which would kind of ruin part of the point of being a doctor -- they would have an average middle class retirement, which would involve a higher degree of frugality than they are likely accustomed to (one modestly priced vacation a year, probably not removing themselves to a more expensive state like California). Those in their late 50s/early 60s would just retire a few years earlier, and their absence won't be missed, because those doctors already retiring early due to bitterness with the system would lose their incentive to close up shop.

    In the end, none of it means anything.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 09-18-09 at 12:24 AM.

  2. #52
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    Re: A new study finds that a majority of physicians support the creation of a public

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Then about half of all doctors have right-wing sentiments and have no problem making empty threats. Saying you will consider quitting when a poll to that effect comes your way is a pretty easy thing to do, but it isn't a very credible warning if anything else in your life is important to you aside from your politics.
    Not that I believe people back these things up either, but how does saying that you would be unlikely to be eager to work a difficult job for (presumably) less wages = "right-wing sentiments"? Seems like that reaction is more human than partisan to me.

    As for your concern: no, the number is not significant. Doctors tend to lead more expensive lifestyles than those of other professions. Those up to their mid-40s might be able to retire, but only at the expense of the kind of golden years they have been envisioning for themselves for the last couple of decades, which would kind of ruin part of the point of being a doctor -- they would have an average middle class retirement, which would involve a higher degree of frugality than they are likely accustomed to (one modestly priced vacation a year, probably not removing themselves to a more expensive state like California). Those in their late 50s/early 60s would just retire a few years earlier, and their absence won't be missed, because those doctors already retiring early due to bitterness with the system would lose their incentive to close up shop.
    I'm aware of the lifestyle that doctors live, but the fact remains that due to the age of their profession and their salaries, they generally have more freedom to make these choices than the average person. And where on earth are you getting the idea that the retirement of doctors in late 50's/early 60's wouldn't be missed? We need pretty much every doctor we can get, and those doctors are often among the best.
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 09-18-09 at 04:56 AM.
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  3. #53
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    Re: A new study finds that a majority of physicians support the creation of a public

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    Yeah because then all 8 immigrants who got snuck onto medicaid would be able to pay their doctors
    Don't be silly, okay?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: A new study finds that a majority of physicians support the creation of a public

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Don't be silly, okay?
    Who's being silly? We spent $8 million dollars to uncover illegal alien fraud in Medicaid, and caught exactly 8 illegals. The article was posted here somewhere in the last couple weeks.

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    Re: A new study finds that a majority of physicians support the creation of a public

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Of course more government will do wonders with this
    Nevermind the fact that her assertion is not true...

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    Re: A new study finds that a majority of physicians support the creation of a public

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    Who's being silly? We spent $8 million dollars to uncover illegal alien fraud in Medicaid, and caught exactly 8 illegals. The article was posted here somewhere in the last couple weeks.
    The problem is that their children are eligible, which is a big loophole in our constitution that is unlikely to change.

    The constitution was written when it was very difficult to cross the ocean, and the nation was mostly unpopulated. So every child born on American soil was automatically a citizen. That was before the days of welfare handouts.

    Now people can sneak across the border and their children are citizens and eligible for any and all benefits, with plenty of social workers to help them along the way.

    Hardly the vision of the founding fathers, I've no doubt...

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    Re: A new study finds that a majority of physicians support the creation of a public

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    The problem is that their children are eligible, which is a big loophole in our constitution that is unlikely to change.

    The constitution was written when it was very difficult to cross the ocean, and the nation was mostly unpopulated. So every child born on American soil was automatically a citizen. That was before the days of welfare handouts.

    Now people can sneak across the border and their children are citizens and eligible for any and all benefits, with plenty of social workers to help them along the way.

    Hardly the vision of the founding fathers, I've no doubt...
    You don't even have to sneak, fwiw.

    My girlfriend is on her ob/gyn rotation right now and at least 1/3 of the babies she's delivered have been to mothers who simply flew to the US from somewhere in the carribbean a month or two before they were due, stayed with friends, and then delivered the baby here.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: A new study finds that a majority of physicians support the creation of a public

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    The problem is that their children are eligible, which is a big loophole in our constitution that is unlikely to change.

    The constitution was written when it was very difficult to cross the ocean, and the nation was mostly unpopulated. So every child born on American soil was automatically a citizen. That was before the days of welfare handouts.

    Now people can sneak across the border and their children are citizens and eligible for any and all benefits, with plenty of social workers to help them along the way.

    Hardly the vision of the founding fathers, I've no doubt...
    Actually, The Constitution does not say any child born on US soil is automatically a citizen.... the 14th amendment has been perverted by the courts to give us anchor babies.

    14th Amendment:

    1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    The part perverted of course is the "jurisdiction thereof".

    Jurisdiction
    jurisdiction n the power, right, or authority to interpret and apply the law : the limits or territory within which authority may be exercised Source: NMW
    How do you apply the law to someone here illegally?

    The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

    Dr. John Fonte, Senior Fellow of The Hudson Institute had this to say about the issue at a Congressional hearing on dual citizenship from September 29, 2005: Dual Citizenship, Birthright Citizenship, and the Meaning of Sovereignty
    The authors in the legislative history, the authors of that language, Senator Lyman Trumbull said, ”When we talk about ’subject to the jurisdiction of the United States,’ it means complete jurisdiction, not owing allegiance to anybody else.” Senator Jacob Howard said that it’s ”a full and complete jurisdiction.”

    This illustrates that Congress recently discussed the issue, and they can’t claim they were unaware. But we don’t have to take Dr. Fonte’s word for it. The following discussion by the various 14th Amendment Framers took place on the Senate floor. I took it from P.A. Madison’s research at The 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution - Fourteenth Amendment - anchor babies and birthright citizenship - interpretations and misinterpretations - US Constitution (use his link for footnotes):
    It is clear the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment had no intention of freely giving away American citizenship to just anyone simply because they may have been born on American soil. Again, we are fortunate enough to have on the record the highest authority tell us, Sen. Lyman Trumbull, Chairman of the Judiciary Committee… and the one who inserted the phrase:
    [T]he provision is, that ‘all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.’ That means ’subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.’ What do we mean by ‘complete jurisdiction thereof?’ Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.

  9. #59
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    Re: A new study finds that a majority of physicians support the creation of a public

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    Actually, The Constitution does not say any child born on US soil is automatically a citizen.... the 14th amendment has been perverted by the courts to give us anchor babies.

    The part perverted of course is the "jurisdiction thereof".

    How do you apply the law to someone here illegally?

    The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net
    "Jurisdiction" means that someone is subject to the laws of the country. Anyone on the soil of the US is subject to the laws of the US.

    jus soli.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: A new study finds that a majority of physicians support the creation of a public

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    "Jurisdiction" means that someone is subject to the laws of the country. Anyone on the soil of the US is subject to the laws of the US.

    jus soli.
    These guys disagree with you... but what do they know, one is just a Constitutional scholar, and the other is just the guy that wrote the 14th amendment.

    Dr. John Fonte, Senior Fellow of The Hudson Institute had this to say about the issue at a Congressional hearing on dual citizenship from September 29, 2005: Dual Citizenship, Birthright Citizenship, and the Meaning of Sovereignty
    The authors in the legislative history, the authors of that language, Senator Lyman Trumbull said, ”When we talk about ’subject to the jurisdiction of the United States,’ it means complete jurisdiction, not owing allegiance to anybody else.” Senator Jacob Howard said that it’s ”a full and complete jurisdiction.”

    This illustrates that Congress recently discussed the issue, and they can’t claim they were unaware. But we don’t have to take Dr. Fonte’s word for it. The following discussion by the various 14th Amendment Framers took place on the Senate floor. I took it from P.A. Madison’s research at The 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution - Fourteenth Amendment - anchor babies and birthright citizenship - interpretations and misinterpretations - US Constitution (use his link for footnotes):
    It is clear the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment had no intention of freely giving away American citizenship to just anyone simply because they may have been born on American soil. Again, we are fortunate enough to have on the record the highest authority tell us, Sen. Lyman Trumbull, Chairman of the Judiciary Committee… and the one who inserted the phrase:
    [T]he provision is, that ‘all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.’ That means ’subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.’ What do we mean by ‘complete jurisdiction thereof?’ Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.
    Did you read it this time?

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