Page 11 of 12 FirstFirst ... 9101112 LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 113

Thread: 'Doctors told me it was against the rules to save my premature baby'

  1. #101
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: 'Doctors told me it was against the rules to save my premature baby'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    This is a good argument for abolishing all government welfare.

    I mean, if an innocent newborn baby isn't worthy of our tax dollars, then how can you justify giving money to a lazy / irresponsible grown up?
    Most adults who need hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical care to prolong their lives by a few days don't get it either...or at least they shouldn't unless they're paying for it out of pocket.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    This incident merely highlights the inevitable conclusion of all leftist social policy. That a person's ultimate worth is simply a function of tax dollars; a variable in some indiscriminate equation which determines the most "pragmatic" option.
    As opposed to the laissez-faire approach, whereby a person's ultimate worth is simply a function of his income; a variable in some indiscriminate equation which determines the most "profitable" option.

    The bottom line is that **** costs money, and there isn't enough of it to go around for everyone to have everything they want. And unless you're paying your medical bills out of your own pocket, someone (whether it's the government or an insurer or a charity or a hospital) is going to be concerned about the costs. Since other people have costs too, it makes sense to deny ludicrous treatments such as this one, where the baby would die anyway after a few hours longer and a few hundred thousand dollars more.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 09-11-09 at 07:22 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  2. #102
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    04-02-15 @ 06:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,211

    Re: 'Doctors told me it was against the rules to save my premature baby'

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    The reason there is a cut off is because the likelihood of it surviving is extremley low.
    True, but there is still a chance. The morbidity and mortality rates of preterm neonates has decreased over the years while the threshold of viability has increased.

    Also, do we know the weight of this infant? Because that's an important factor to consider.

    What is the point in giving false hope to parents and then it dying anyway?
    It's a waste of money and resources which can be directed at perhaps babies who have a higher chance of life.
    Sure, give the money to the babies. If there's a shortfall, just take it out of the welfare funds.

  3. #103
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: 'Doctors told me it was against the rules to save my premature baby'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    True, but there is still a chance. The morbidity and mortality rates of preterm neonates has decreased over the years while the threshold of viability has increased.

    Also, do we know the weight of this infant? Because that's an important factor to consider.
    Someone posted earlier in the thread that this would actually be a world record if a baby this premature survived. I didn't check the veracity of the claim, but assuming it's true, it means that the survival probability is something like one in 100 million (depending how you calculate it). At any rate, they're so low that it's just not worth the expense.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  4. #104
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    04-02-15 @ 06:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,211

    Re: 'Doctors told me it was against the rules to save my premature baby'

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Like Terri Schiavo?
    Was the government paying for her? I don't know.

  5. #105
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    04-02-15 @ 06:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,211

    Re: 'Doctors told me it was against the rules to save my premature baby'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Someone posted earlier in the thread that this would actually be a world record if a baby this premature survived.
    Records are meant to be broken...

    At any rate, they're so low that it's just not worth the expense.
    What about this guy?

    Miracle child

    Even the most ardent critics of early-intervention would be disgusted by this since they maintain that parents, and not doctors, should decide whether or not to issue treatment.

    In the 1960s, interest in infants at the edge of viability began to grow dramatically, and newly minted neonatologists became self-appointed guardians of the rights of borderline neonates; the new privileges trumped the competing rights of family and community. Technical improvements progressed spectacularly; "with the skills we have developed," one zealous team exulted,3 "[we] can bring a peach back from death." This blinkered focus has resulted in a fall of neonatal mortality rates to lows that are now unprecedented in all of human history, and neonatal intensive care has expanded into an enormous industry. A recent survey by the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality4 found that "the total national bill for... prematurity is estimated at $11.9 billion in [the year] 2000." These charges (converting the charges to actual costs would reduce this amount by roughly one-half) are for acute hospital care; they "do not reflect physician and other professional fees." Neonatal intensive care units have become "profit centers"; one unit accounted for half the total yield of the entire academic medical center, "not just peds but the whole place—a total gain of $10 million" (J. Lantos, written communication, 2003).

    Compassion or Opportunism? -- Silverman 113 (2): 402 -- Pediatrics

  6. #106
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Between Hollywood and Compton.
    Last Seen
    11-25-09 @ 12:02 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    5,497

    Re: 'Doctors told me it was against the rules to save my premature baby'

    I don't know about this individual case, but I am aware of an often inordinate focus placed on lifesaving measures at all costs even if the suffering caused is so severe and intense as to be far more unpleasant than earlier death would be. The case of Andrew Stinson should indicate that:

    [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Long-Dying-Baby-Andrew/dp/0316816353"]Amazon.com: The Long Dying of Baby Andrew (9780316816359): Robert Stinson, Peggy Stinson: Books[/ame]
    Last edited by Agnapostate; 09-11-09 at 08:29 PM.

  7. #107
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    04-02-15 @ 06:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,211

    Re: 'Doctors told me it was against the rules to save my premature baby'

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    I don't know about this individual case, but I am aware of an often inordinate focus placed on lifesaving measures at all costs even if the suffering caused is so severe and intense as to be far more unpleasant than earlier death would be.
    In this case we'll never know, since he's dead...

  8. #108
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: 'Doctors told me it was against the rules to save my premature baby'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Records are meant to be broken...
    OK, perhaps the NHS should focus on breaking a more affordable and less random record. Highest percentage of the public vaccinated against swine flu. Biggest reduction in diabetes and heart disease over a ten-year period. First country to find an effective cure for pancreatic cancer.

    The money would be better spent on any of those things than something like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    What about this guy?

    Miracle child
    An anecdotal story is not convincing evidence. For every story like that, there are literally millions of cases where the baby did NOT survive that prematurely. There are much more cost-effective ways to save lives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    Even the most ardent critics of early-intervention would be disgusted by this since they maintain that parents, and not doctors, should decide whether or not to issue treatment.
    I have no problem with that if the parents are paying the bill on their own. If they aren't, it's perfectly reasonable for whoever IS paying for it (whether a private insurer or the government) to look at the cost-effectiveness of the procedure.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 09-11-09 at 08:44 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  9. #109
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Between Hollywood and Compton.
    Last Seen
    11-25-09 @ 12:02 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    5,497

    Re: 'Doctors told me it was against the rules to save my premature baby'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    In this case we'll never know, since he's dead...
    Oh. Is it not typically the case that preemies lack critical capacities integral to relatively comfortable existence outside of the womb, or is the nine-month residency just a formality?

  10. #110
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    04-02-15 @ 06:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,211

    Re: 'Doctors told me it was against the rules to save my premature baby'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    An anecdotal story is not convincing evidence.
    It's not anecdotal.

    For every story like that, there are literally millions of cases where the baby did NOT survive that prematurely.
    The threshold for viability has steadily increased throughout history due to advances in medical technology and methodology. These advancements are the consequence of innovation and determination, whereas you see nothing but obstacles. That is not how science, or the human race, advances.

    There are much more cost-effective ways to save lives.
    As long as you don't hide the fact that government health care will be nothing more than exercise in cost-effectives, I'm in no mood to complain. That was basically my point from the onset.

    I have no problem with that if the parents are paying the bill on their own. If they aren't, it's perfectly reasonable for whoever IS paying for it (whether a private insurer or the government) to look at the cost-effectiveness of the procedure.
    But she is paying for it. Unless, she hasn't done her taxes?

Page 11 of 12 FirstFirst ... 9101112 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •