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Thread: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

  1. #61
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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Bush is responsible for nothing the Democrats choose to do, which includes continuing any Bush policies. They've got the ball, completely, utterly, entirely.

    All spending, and every line item of every budget, is a choice made at the time.

    And them's the facts.
    This is an excellent demonstration of a fundamental problem with modern liberals and (especially) Democrats: Facts are an anathema

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Ah. Back to the intellectually dishonest partisan bigotry.

    Oh well. You can lead a horse to water...
    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Bush is responsible for nothing the Democrats choose to do, which includes continuing any Bush policies. They've got the ball, completely, utterly, entirely.

    All spending, and every line item of every budget, is a choice made at the time.

    And them's the facts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    And of course the congress NEVER adds any earmarks to the budget the President submits.... got it.

    But you are still wrong, look at the constitution..... congress controls the money, period, exclamation point, arrows, circles, and a diagram on the back of each one.... it's congress that controls the money, got it?
    Crunch, Harshaw, and Goobie, you are flinging accusations, but no facts.
    Demonstrate what part of the CBO numbers are false, what part Bush is *NOT* responsible for ...

    And Crunch, srsly, earmarks are not the reason we are bleeding red ink.


    Harshaw, you are wrong. Structural changes made by Bush will continue for years .... and Republicans are fighting even now to keep them in place. Specifically, his tax cuts for the rich. Also, obligations from his war continue now, and will for decades with veterans health and more. Not to mention having to replace all assets used up in his war.

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This is an excellent demonstration of a fundamental problem with modern liberals and (especially) Democrats: Facts are an anathema

    Funny stuff. GOPers have mastered the one-liner and the detractions, but do not offer support for arguments. Once again, demonstrate errors in CBO numbers. Show where GOPers paid for Medicare Part D, paid for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Show where deficits improved as a result of Reagan's or Bush's elit-O-nomics voodoo tax cuts?


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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    Crunch, Harshaw, and Goobie, you are flinging accusations, but no facts.
    On the contrary -- I quoted your statements, which are more than enough facts to make the point that I did.

    Demonstrate what part of the CBO numbers are false, what part Bush is *NOT* responsible for.
    Obviously, the FACT that the budgets were passed by congress, and that congress MUST then bear SOME of the responsibility for the deficits, past fpresent and future, goes right past you -- but then, as Congress is/was controlled by the Democrats, that's not a surprise.

    Its sad that you're -so- willing to sell your integrity in order to gain/retain as personal and/or partisan policital power as you can.

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    Funny stuff. GOPers have mastered the one-liner and the detractions...
    Oh, the IRONY...

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    On the contrary -- I quoted your statements, which are more than enough facts to make the point that I did.


    Obviously, the FACT that the budgets were passed by congress, and that congress MUST then bear SOME of the responsibility for the deficits, past fpresent and future, goes right past you -- but then, as Congress is/was controlled by the Democrats, that's not a surprise.

    Its sad that you're -so- willing to sell your integrity in order to gain/retain as personal and/or partisan policital power as you can.


    So, in other words, you got nothing?

    That's what I thought. I give historical data and budget analyses, you say the Democrats must be responsible....

    Sorry, history speaks. Modern Republicanism has never offered a period of fiscal responsibility. Our budget and economic health were worse off after Reagan-Bush ... and worse again after Bush-the-shrub.

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    So, in other words, you got nothing?
    On the contrary -- I quoted your statements, which are more than enough facts to make the point that I did, that you're -so- willing to sell your integrity in order to gain/retain as personal and/or partisan policital power as you can.

    That's what I thought. I give historical data and budget analyses, you say the Democrats must be responsible.
    LII: Constitution
    Read it. It describes how bills are created and then passed into law.
    Sorry -- history speaks.

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    It was:

    I demonstrated that this is not true. You yourself demonstrate it is not true.
    I was going by memory; the points I was making are still relevant.

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    It looks as if the town hall protesters are having an impact. This bill seems to be dying a good death, slowly but surely...

    We can not afford it, and we can not pay for it.

    Even if Obama gets his way and raises the "Debt ceiling"


    Senate must raise debt ceiling above $12T - TheHill.com


    Back to the point of the thread .... I just read an article by Marc Ambinder predicting passage (Ambers is a conservative, btw):

    How Obama Survived August

    At the beginning of the month, I predicted that August might turn out be a bloodbath for Democrats. At the time, the Democratic self-containment on health care had dissolved, cranks were taking over constituent meetings, and that real anxiety about Obama had found a channel and political opponents of health care had an edge. And it was a bloodbath. No question: the White House was taken aback by the ferocity of the health care debate, the media was confused, activists were alarmed, and Republican enthusiasm shot up. But a funny thing happened on the way to the morgue...

    The worst thing that could have happened to Democrats -- and the one thing that needed to happen in order to kill health reform -- did not happen. The Democrats held together. Moderates were not intimidated. Don't confuse their constituent meeting pander with changed minds.

    ... After August, under the worst case scenario, there is majority support for the following major changes to health care: real (albeit limited) competition in the insurance industry (even absent a public plan). A cap on what a person pays for catastrophic illnesses. An end to insurance company recision policies. Guaranteed issue. A basic benefit package. Significant subsidies to help people who earn as much as $64,000 a year pay for health insurance. Better cost and coverage incentives. And lots more. Say what you will about these reforms -- maybe they're incremental -- but they're a foundation for center-left policy in the future.

    After August, conservatives have exhausted their repertoire of arguments and many of their demagogic tricks. Public support for significant health care reform as something worth doing remains high. Support for Obama's plan remains unchanged -- didn't grow, certainly, but didn't decline. Support among Democrats remains at 90%. Obama's message tomorrow night will be one that dovetails with what the American people believe: it's important to get health care reform done. How will Republicans respond to his speech? Rep. Charles Boustany (R-LA) can trot out familiar arguments about the Republican's "plan," which is in scare quotes because it was written solely to have something to show people who asked what the Republican plan was. (If Republicans had written a serious plan, one that recognized the reality of a Democratic Congress, then I'd drop the scare quotes.)

    After August, Democrats have the momentum to pass the bill....

    more ...

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    If we don't pass a public option or single payer, we are all screwed. I'm tired of being governed by the big corporations. The majority of Americans want this and those who are against it are against their own best interests. Those countries in the world with this sort of system do very well. I'm curious when our senators are going to stop taking bribes and actually vote for what is best for our nation as a whole.
    It's time for a revolution in our country. Not a revolution forged with guns and bombs but a revolution forged of compassion and altruism. A revolution that extends a hand to those who don't have and who cannot. A revolution that makes Health Care available to all those in the US.

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