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Thread: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

  1. #31
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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    You mean spending the last Bush budget?
    If you;re going to blame the FY2009 deficits on Bush, does that mean you will also give hoim the credit when all of The Obama's stimulus plans passed since he took office pull the economy out of the recession?

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    If you;re going to blame the FY2009 deficits on Bush, does that mean you will also give hoim the credit when all of The Obama's stimulus plans passed since he took office pull the economy out of the recession?
    FY09 has not yet begun, and yes, there will be costs associated with Bush decisions. Not the least of which will be his war in Iraq, and domestic policy implosion.

    We will be bearing the costs of Bush's reign for years to come.

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    FY09 has not yet begun
    FY2009 began 1 OCT 2008.

    and yes, there will be costs associated with Bush decisions. Not the least of which will be his war in Iraq, and domestic policy implosion.
    You didnt answer my question.

    If you're going to blame the FY2009 deficits on Bush, does that mean you will also give him the credit when all of The Obama's stimulus [spending] passed since he took office pulls the economy out of the recession?

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    FY2009 began 1 OCT 2008.


    You didnt answer my question.

    If you're going to blame the FY2009 deficits on Bush, does that mean you will also give him the credit when all of The Obama's stimulus [spending] passed since he took office pulls the economy out of the recession?

    Ahhh, of course. Sorry, mixed up my fiscal years. So YES fy09 is ABSOLUTELY Bush's fault, and much of fy10 will be too!


    NO, Bush gets no credit for stimulus spending, b/c he did NOTHING to pass any stimulus spending. We've been in recession since Dec 07, if he had proposed stim spending last spring, summer, or fall, we'd be better off today.

    He does, however, get some credit for helping avert complete disaster in the financial systems. Some, b/c he's also responsible for much of it. Had Clinton been at the helm, that would NOT have come that close.

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    Ahhh, of course. Sorry, mixed up my fiscal years. So YES fy09 is ABSOLUTELY Bush's fault, and much of fy10 will be too!
    How is Bush to blame for all of the deficits rising from all of stimulus spending that took place once he was out of office?

    And, what blame is there for the Dem-controlled Congress that passed FY2009?

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    How is Bush to blame for all of the deficits rising from all of stimulus spending that took place once he was out of office?

    And, what blame is there for the Dem-controlled Congress that passed FY2009?
    The vast portion of this year's deficit has nothing to do with the stimulus spending. The majority of the stimulus spending will not be spent this year.


    And the Dem-controlled Congress could not pass a Dem-budget unless they had veto override, which they didn't. It's Bush's budget.
    Last edited by jackalope; 09-08-09 at 03:38 PM.

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    The vast portion of this year's deficit has nothing to do with the stimulus spending. The majority of the stimulus spending will not be spent this year.
    1: Show that to be true
    2: If that is true and the economy pulls out of recession this year, why should the rest of the spending not be cancelled?
    3: Answer the 2nd question
    Last edited by Goobieman; 09-08-09 at 03:39 PM.

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    1: Show that to be true
    2: If that is true and the economy pulls out of recession this year, why should the rest of the spending not be cancelled?
    3: Answer the 2nd question

    The 2009 budget deficit—How did we get here?

    By John Irons
    August 20, 2009

    EPI Issue Brief #262

    The 2009 Budget Deficit
    How did we get here?

    By John Irons, Kathryn Edwards, and Anna Turner

    Contrary to popular assumption, stimulus spending under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act has been a very small factor in the expansion of the federal budget deficit in 2009. Many policies that pre-date the Obama Administration, including Bush-era spending on the wars in Iran and Afghanistan, are key factors in the growing deficit.

    more ...

    The 2009 budget deficit—How did we get here?


    Further, on Jan 7, before Obama was even sworn in, CBO revised Bush's budget projections to a $1.2b deficit for fy09, and the outlook further worsened later. 4th q numbers for employment and gdp were worse than known, and budget projections were also worse than known.


    Stop projecting republican responsibility onto democrats. The party of personal responsibility needs to step up and TAKE responsibility for their actions ...

    On Jan 7th, before Obama even took office, and only 3 mos into the fiscal year, CBO was revising deficits

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    Budget deficits since 2000 - not offsetting against social security.
    The Republicans have EVERYTHING to do with it. They should NEVER be allowed to control the purse strings again:

    2000 +86.4
    2001 -32.4
    2002 -317.4
    2003 -538.4
    2004 -568.0
    2005 -493.6
    2006 -434.5
    2007 -342.2
    2008 -638.1

    http://cbo.gov/ftpdocs/100xx/doc1001...icalTables.pdf



    Congressional Budget Office - Budget Projections
    This is truly the definition of irony.

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post


    Nevermind that for 6 years, Republicans controlled those purse strings. Granted (and it's very obvious that), since 2002 most of that deficit is "war-chest" spending, but it was still a deficit under Republican control for 6 out of 8 years!

    Okay, so the Dems are in charge now. Forget that the last two years under GW Bush the Dems controlled Congress. They still had to follow the "agenda" of the sitting President. It is clear from the graph that from 2006-2007 the Dems were trying to bring the deficit down. What changed? The economy, i.e. the subprime market, i.e., the bank bailout. Take away that accounting black cloud (necessary, IMO, but still a black cloud nonetheless), and I dare say the deficit would have been reduced still further. It's high now because the fed was attempting to cover broad financial territory which included providing a financial boost to the states. People forget about that when they speak of this nation's debt and stimulus spending.

    Again, I agree that at some point you have to stop spending so much and start becoming more fiscally responsible, but based on what I know of this country's financial mess and where it all started, I'm convinced the outgoing and incoming Presidents had no choice but to do what they did. They acted boldly and swiftly and IMO kept this country from real financial collapse.
    Moral of the story; deficits under Democrats for social welfare programs = OKAY. Deficits under Republicans dealing with national emergencies = BAD.


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