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Thread: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

  1. #21
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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Sorry, my times not worth being taken up with people who act like children. You want to have a reasonable adult conversation without idiotic school yard nicknames, be my guest to repost your thoughts and act like an adult. If you want to continue acting like a child go find someone else to give wet willies to, grown ups are talking.
    Let me summarize this for you; "bawah, bawah, “hyper partisan,” bawah bawah, “childishness,” bawah bawah."

    NOTHING you would have to add to the conversation would add anything other than more whiney diatribes. It is obvious that you have this idiotic notion about "hyper partisans" and when you debate, it becomes a whiney personal diatribe much like the Libruls infesting this forum do who incessantly whine about Republicans and the previous administration; it’s OLD, its tiresome and adds ZERO to any debate.

    No need for me to worry about more of your whiney assessments of the previous administration, Republicans or what I mean when I type "librul."

    How ironic that you should suggest that my comments would be childlike compared to your tireless child like whining.

    Carry on.

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    The Federal budget doubled during the Bush years, and the the actual deficit was in excess of $300 bn in at least three years before the Democrat takeover.
    The actual deficit when the Republican left office as published by the OMB was $248 billion revised from previous estimates that were lower and had dropped to $160 billion in 2007 the first full year of Democrat rule. In 2008 it climbed to $458 billion and in 2009 it is currently estimated to go to $1.8 trillion.

    But again it begs the question; how is this even remotely relevant to a debate about the current administrations efforts to sink this nation into a vast sea of red ink.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget...s/hist01z1.xls

    It is almost as absurd as Zyphs whiney attempts to suggest that these moronic Democrats are no different than the previous Republicans.

    Tell me something, how does tripling the Federal deficit and burying this nation in a sea of debt have ANYTHING to do with what the Republicans did for the 12 short years they controlled congress?

    How does the asinine irresponsible spending with no debate about how they will pay for it all compare to anything the Republicans did dealing with 9-11, two wars and a major natural disaster; here let me help you with the answer to that: NOTHING!

    Good lord, watching people constantly point at Republicans in a debate about the current mess we are in is beyond stupid.

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    Deficits in the interest of national security are one thing, deficits to run Robin Hood wealth redistribution are quite another.
    Someone who REALLY gets it. You are a refreshing breath of fresh air!

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The public upswell does remind me a bit of the ill fated Kennedy-McCain-Bush immigration plan that ended up failing. Its not quite as uproarious, and not as many on both sides screaming about it, but its seeming to have similar effects. I'm not sure if it'll be enough not to get it through the house, but if it goes through there's no way its going to be played as something resoundly supported by a large majority of Americans but a bitter, wedge issue piece of legislation forced on many.
    You are correct; and it has become a bitter wedge issue thanks to the bitter divisive politics of the Democrats who now with all the political power wish to force their liberal political agenda down the throats of Americans that they have been desirous of for decades by denigrating their political opponents in the court of public opinion with their continued offensive hyperbolic diatribe.

    Once again; this is NOT a Republican issue, they do not need one single Republican vote to pass this leftist agenda.

    Hugo Chavez would be proud of Obama and the Democrats and their methodology.

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    The actual deficit when the Republican left office as published by the OMB was $248 billion revised from previous estimates that were lower and had dropped to $160 billion in 2007 the first full year of Democrat rule. In 2008 it climbed to $458 billion and in 2009 it is currently estimated to go to $1.8 trillion.

    But again it begs the question; how is this even remotely relevant to a debate about the current administrations efforts to sink this nation into a vast sea of red ink.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget...s/hist01z1.xls

    It is almost as absurd as Zyphs whiney attempts to suggest that these moronic Democrats are no different than the previous Republicans.

    Tell me something, how does tripling the Federal deficit and burying this nation in a sea of debt have ANYTHING to do with what the Republicans did for the 12 short years they controlled congress?

    How does the asinine irresponsible spending with no debate about how they will pay for it all compare to anything the Republicans did dealing with 9-11, two wars and a major natural disaster; here let me help you with the answer to that: NOTHING!

    Good lord, watching people constantly point at Republicans in a debate about the current mess we are in is beyond stupid.

    Budget deficits since 2000 - not offsetting against social security.
    The Republicans have EVERYTHING to do with it. They should NEVER be allowed to control the purse strings again:

    2000 +86.4
    2001 -32.4
    2002 -317.4
    2003 -538.4
    2004 -568.0
    2005 -493.6
    2006 -434.5
    2007 -342.2
    2008 -638.1

    http://cbo.gov/ftpdocs/100xx/doc1001...icalTables.pdf



    Congressional Budget Office - Budget Projections

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    Budget deficits since 2000 - not offsetting against social security.
    The Republicans have EVERYTHING to do with it. They should NEVER be allowed to control the purse strings again:

    2000 +86.4
    2001 -32.4
    2002 -317.4
    2003 -538.4
    2004 -568.0
    2005 -493.6
    2006 -434.5
    2007 -342.2
    2008 -638.1

    http://cbo.gov/ftpdocs/100xx/doc1001...icalTables.pdf



    Congressional Budget Office - Budget Projections
    How are the Dems doing with that purse, right about now?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    Deficits in the interest of national security are one thing, deficits to run Robin Hood wealth redistribution are quite another.
    You know, I could buy into that idea if the Bush Administration hadn't tried to cover up some (if not all) of their war-time spending related to the Iraq war. That aside, I'd rather put the deficit argument in these terms:

    "Budgetary spending when justified is okay; unjustified spending is not okay."

    As much as many in this country disagree, I think most of the spending from October 2008 to present have all been justified. I'd even call the initial spending for health care reform justified depending on which way reform goes. (I'm not for establishing a new branch of government when clearly one of the aspects that is costing this country money is clearly broken - Medicare - and there is atleast one other branch of government that could be used to correct the issue at hand - Medicaid.) I do agree, however, that a +$1.2 trillion deficit is a quite a bit much , but I can certainly understand how we got to this point. Do we need to start being more fiscally responsibility? Yes! Absolutely!! But IMO, alot of the spending was indeed necessary. Without it, I honestly believe this country would be in far worse shape than it is today.

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    Arrow Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    That aside, I'd rather put the deficit argument in these terms:

    "Budgetary spending when justified is okay; unjustified spending is not okay."
    I'd rather not. National Security is a "have to" situation, whereas intervention in economic ups and downs, is, at best, an "ought to" situation.

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    How are the Dems doing with that purse, right about now?
    You mean spending the last Bush budget? Check in after the end of the fiscal year (end of this month). Obama's first budget hasn't even gone into effect yet. Actually, it hasn't even been passed yet. There are 12 spending bills to pass. And check in again after the second and third years, after there's been some time to clean up the GOP mess.


    The GOP should NEVER be allowed to control the purse strings again. EVER

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    How are the Dems doing with that purse, right about now?


    Nevermind that for 6 years, Republicans controlled those purse strings. Granted (and it's very obvious that), since 2002 most of that deficit is "war-chest" spending, but it was still a deficit under Republican control for 6 out of 8 years!

    Okay, so the Dems are in charge now. Forget that the last two years under GW Bush the Dems controlled Congress. They still had to follow the "agenda" of the sitting President. It is clear from the graph that from 2006-2007 the Dems were trying to bring the deficit down. What changed? The economy, i.e. the subprime market, i.e., the bank bailout. Take away that accounting black cloud (necessary, IMO, but still a black cloud nonetheless), and I dare say the deficit would have been reduced still further. It's high now because the fed was attempting to cover broad financial territory which included providing a financial boost to the states. People forget about that when they speak of this nation's debt and stimulus spending.

    Again, I agree that at some point you have to stop spending so much and start becoming more fiscally responsible, but based on what I know of this country's financial mess and where it all started, I'm convinced the outgoing and incoming Presidents had no choice but to do what they did. They acted boldly and swiftly and IMO kept this country from real financial collapse.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 09-08-09 at 02:40 PM.

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