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Thread: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    librul
    Sorry, my times not worth being taken up with people who act like children. You want to have a reasonable adult conversation without idiotic school yard nicknames, be my guest to repost your thoughts and act like an adult. If you want to continue acting like a child go find someone else to give wet willies to, grown ups are talking.

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    As a once famous Republican President once said; "there you go again."

    I find your over the top gross exaggerations of the Bush Presidency and Republicans fascinating in light of the current environment. You sound more like a hysterical emotional Librul when you make such farcical claims about the Bush Administration in a debate about the current one.

    But once again, much like a Librul, you want to play the "Bush" card as if it had even the remotest relevance to what is occurring now.

    Bush had to contend with 9-11, a HUGE disaster, two wars of which were complete BI-PARTISAN Congressional support for with vast public support and a major natural disaster on a major American City.

    Now I know it is fun to pretend 9-11 never happened and to fabricate the nonsensical notion that the wars were by choice and based on lies and they were poorly managed; but that is just hyperbolic baloney.

    The Republicans did push some agendas I was in disagreement with, but they were the beloved realm of bi-partisan cooperation you and Libruls so desperately rail about.

    So here is your REALITY check and the bottom line; the worst deficit during the Republican controlled Congress was $200 billion. A Republican led congress I would add that was the first in over five decades to actually balance a budget. So your farcical rhetoric aside, how can anyone compare what happened during the Republican held Congress to what we are now seeing; $12 trillion in debt and deficits projected at $10 trillion over the next ten years with NO end in sight?

    The Federal budget doubled during the Bush years, and the the actual deficit was in excess of $300 bn in at least three years before the Democrat takeover.
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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Deficits in the interest of national security are one thing, deficits to run Robin Hood wealth redistribution are quite another.

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    i think a better prediction than "it will pass" is "it will not be brought to the floor"

    but none of us knows

    wed nite will reveal much

    look for "trigger" talk

    if so, they gotta go back to committee

    there is an oct 15 deadline for doing reconciliation in the senate

    that is, after 10-15, they need 60 senators

    not that they'd ever actually go the schumer route, anyway

    mere academics

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    The public upswell does remind me a bit of the ill fated Kennedy-McCain-Bush immigration plan that ended up failing. Its not quite as uproarious, and not as many on both sides screaming about it, but its seeming to have similar effects. I'm not sure if it'll be enough not to get it through the house, but if it goes through there's no way its going to be played as something resoundly supported by a large majority of Americans but a bitter, wedge issue piece of legislation forced on many.

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    People are waking up. Alot of them realize they've been asleep for a long time.
    What does that say about the past Administration if people are just now waking up? Pick your words very carefully here.

    As to the health care reform bill (H.R. 3200), I think it will get revised along the following lines:

    • The government public option will be replaced with a state-based public option health insurance exchange (HIE).
    • Medicare will likely end within the next 10 years. Future retirees will be shifted either onto private health care plans or a plan within the state-based HIE.
    • Medicaid will be expanded to cover more individuals and families who meet extended federal poverty level guidelines.


    I suspect all other aspects of H.R. 3200, i.e., changes in tax codes, eliminating exclusion on pre-existing conditions, focus on prevention, fee scales, etc., etc., will remain part of whatever revised health care bill that comes up including the recommendation for an advisory board only it will be run either within the Dept. of Health and Human Services or a similar board will be mandated to be established within the states. The price tag for health care reform will go down at the government level, but the states will now be picking up a larger portion of the tab. I suspect that the fed will continue to pay matching funds to Medicaid as is currently the case, and the new state-based HIE (if it comes to this compromise) will likely receive health care "credits" to help offset the cost to the states initially. But gradually, individuals and their employers will start paying more towards health care plans in the HIEs just as the employed whose salaries can afford it currently do with your employer pays half and the employee paying the other half.

    That's my guess anyway, but either way their will be a "public option" and the government will be involved in health care reform, only most of the responsibility will not be on the states and not the fed.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 09-08-09 at 12:39 PM.

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    What does that say about the past Administration if people are just now waking up? Pick your words very carefully here.
    Alotta people haven't been paying attention, for a long time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I hope it does pass. It will only be that much more insurance of the Dems getting their asses voted out.
    Trust me apdst, regardless of the political ramifications; we do NOT want them to pass this bill in any form. Once an entitlement is passed, they are forever and this bill will sink the economy in my opinion.

    This bill needs to die in committee or on the floor of the Senate and then perhaps we can begin anew with REAL reform with REAL bi-partisan support.


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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Trust me apdst, regardless of the political ramifications; we do NOT want them to pass this bill in any form. Once an entitlement is passed, they are forever and this bill will sink the economy in my opinion.

    This bill needs to die in committee or on the floor of the Senate and then perhaps we can begin anew with REAL reform with REAL bi-partisan support.

    It won't take affect until 2013, so the Republicans will have time to repeal it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    What does that say about the past Administration if people are just now waking up? Pick your words very carefully here.
    What does it say OV?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    As to the health care reform bill (H.R. 3200), I think it will get revised along the following lines:

    • The government public option will be replaced with a state-based public option health insurance exchange (HIE).
    • Same person, different clothes; this is the SAME thing but instead of burying the Fed in more red ink, it will bury the States in more red ink and massive budget deficits beyond where they are right now.

      Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    • Medicare will likely end within the next 10 years. Future retirees will be shifted either onto private health care plans or a plan within the state-based HIE.
    I will take bets on this one; no one in politics has the political courage to touch this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
  11. Medicaid will be expanded to cover more individuals and families who meet extended federal poverty level guidelines.
Again, no difference here except that the burden will once again be born by States and in many instances, those BIG states are already wallowing in fiscal crisis.

Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
I suspect all other aspects of H.R. 3200, i.e., changes in tax codes, eliminating exclusion on pre-existing conditions, focus on prevention, fee scales, etc., etc., will remain part of whatever revised health care bill that comes up including the recommendation for an advisory board only it will be run either within the Dept. of Health and Human Services or a similar board will be mandated to be established within the states.
Another of a long list of bad ideas.

Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
The price tag for health care reform will go down at the government level, but the states will now be picking up a larger portion of the tab. I suspect that the fed will continue to pay matching funds to Medicaid as is currently the case, and the new state-based HIE (if it comes to this compromise) will likely receive health care "credits" to help offset the cost to the states initially.
This once again fits the same analogy of the idiotic idea of a Federal "economic stimulus" plan that takes water from one side of the lake and dumps into the other side proclaiming one is actually filling the lake up.

This shifting will be a worse disaster than the original idiotic idea of the Feds running healthcare.

Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
But gradually, individuals and their employers will start paying more towards health care plans in the HIEs just as the employed whose salaries can afford it currently do with your employer pays half and the employee paying the other half.

That's my guess anyway, but either way their will be a "public option" and the government will be involved in health care reform, only most of the responsibility will not be on the states and not the fed.
Where would it be if the Government interjects itself at this level into healthcare?

I can guarantee you this; with government involvement there will be a MUCH higher cost to EVERYONE, it will have a serious negative impact on economic activity and it will lead to LONG waiting lists, LESS choice and a lack of care if it comes to highly specialized operations and care.

It is a BAD idea no matter how much anyone who supports this asinine idea spins it.
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