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BP Makes ‘Giant’ Oil Discovery in Gulf of Mexico

winston53660 said:
maybe because there is not an infrastructure to support the alternatives as of yet.
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Exactly the same can be said about gasoline - until such time that the market demanded it.
 
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Goobieman said:
Exactly the same can be said about gasoline - until such time that the market demanded it.
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The infrastructure for the oil based economy was supported by the government.
 
winston53660 said:
The infrastructure for the oil based economy was supported by the government.
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Supposing for the moment that this is true, the fact remains that it was -driven- by the demand from the market -- no demand, no support.
 
Goobieman said:
Supposing for the moment that this is true, the fact remains that it was -driven- by the demand from the market -- no demand, no support.
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No it was driven by demand from Standard Oil and the people producing cars like Ford and GM.
 
winston53660 said:
No it was driven by demand from Standard Oil and the people producing cars like Ford and GM.
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If true, how is it that they got into a position where they could influence national policy?
 
winston53660 said:
No it was driven by demand from Standard Oil and the people producing cars like Ford and GM.
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Um....no. Standard Oil and Ford were 'made' because of the demand for their products, not the other way around.

'cause you see, until the markjet started buying their pordicts in bulk, they didn't have any meaningful influence over anyone, much less the government.
 
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Goobieman said:
Um....no. Standard Oil and Ford were 'made' because of the demand for their products, not the other way around.
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It really is more complicated than that.
 
PeteEU said:
And using billions on this oil instead of alternative energy.... which you think is better for the future?
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Why does one preclude the other. Why should the government even be telling a private company what they can be spending their "Billions" for?

Do you think that all these alternative forms of energy are going to magically spring up while it'll take "ten years" for anything to be produced from the oil? Do you think its not going to take ten years, if not more, for alternative forms of energy to become so wide spread that they make up the majority of our energy use in this country even if we did force companies in the U.S. to be focusing on oil, let alone if we allow it to go at a even SEMI-natural course? Do you think that even IF all of that happened we still wouldn't have need and use for oil in a still decent amount?

Your position isn't logical, it isn't intelligent, its platitudes and talking points and nothing more. We most definitely need to be focusing money and research in this country towards ALL forms of domestic energy...wind, coal, solar, nuclear, gas, and yes, OIL as well. We should not focus specifically on oil, but nor should we simply reject it and ignore it. Transitions don't happen over night, rarely do they even happen in a decade, and there are far to many things that simply in a decade or even in five decades are still going to require oil and in those cases its better to have it locally then relying upon some exterior source.
 
winston53660 said:
It really is more complicated than that.
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No, it really isnt.

You said their influence came from their money.
Their money came from the demand for their products.
Thus, the demand for their products -must- have preceeded their ability to influence the government sufficiently to subsidize their infrastructure.

And so, my point remains valid -- the market for oil and the infrastructure that developed to feed that market was driven by demand.
 
Harshaw said:
Who runs in 4WD when commuting?
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Even while in 2wd, they are hauling the extra weight of the transfer case, and MOST of them never even go off road. It is a macho thing, gots to have it in case you come across someone stuck in the mud, sand, snow, etc....
 
dragondad said:
Refusing to tap into newly discovered domestic sources is only going to increase the power and revenues of those hostile regimes listed above.

B.S.

The amount of oil in those closed off reserves would effect the price of gas by only a few cents. Ten years down the line. That's not going to materially effect any "hostile regimes" for the better or worse.

Stop spreading right wing urban legends.


“Analysis of Oil and Gas Production in ANWR“: 2004 Congressional Report.

It is expected that the price impact of ANWR coastal plain production might reduce world oilprices by as much as 30 to 50 cents per barrel [in 2025].

Don’t spend it all in one place, American public! [There are 42 gallons in a barrel.]

EIA continues:

Assuming that world oil markets continue to work as they do today, the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries could countermand any potential price impact of ANWR coastal plain production by reducing its exports by an equal amount.
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The price of oil is not the issue, the cost of oil is the issue. We are fighting wars over there because we want the region stabilized. I say let them eat sand and oil and kill each other until their population is small enough to deal with....
 
dragondad said:
B.S.

The amount of oil in those closed off reserves would effect the price of gas by only a few cents. Ten years down the line. That's not going to materially effect any "hostile regimes" for the better or worse.

Stop spreading right wing urban legends.


“Analysis of Oil and Gas Production in ANWR“: 2004 Congressional Report.

It is expected that the price impact of ANWR coastal plain production might reduce world oilprices by as much as 30 to 50 cents per barrel [in 2025].
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So in other words, ANWR would reduce the cost of oil, by a fractional amount, but it would be a reduction. And that's one area. This gulf discovery is another. And maybe there are other fields that further exploration can locate. Add them all up together and they do result in lower prices. Not necessarily dramatically lower prices, but lower prices.

EIA continues:

Assuming that world oil markets continue to work as they do today, the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries could countermand any potential price impact of ANWR coastal plain production by reducing its exports by an equal amount.
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So they sell less barrels of oil at the same price? Still means they make less money.

Again no one is saying this discovery or any discovery or sum total of discoveries is going to knock OPEC out of the driver's seat in the world oil market, but they do chip away. And what happens if we don't open up these fields? Our existing fields dry up and OPEC gains an even larger percentage of the market.

And again, I'm not saying we should only focus on exploration. We should also focus on alternative energy and finding other ways to reduce our dependancy on foreign oil.

Domestic oil is not the long term solution to the problem of our dependancy on foriegn oil, but it can reduce the problem (even if it is slightly) while we search for a viable long term solution.
 
UtahBill said:
Even while in 2wd, they are hauling the extra weight of the transfer case, and MOST of them never even go off road. It is a macho thing, gots to have it in case you come across someone stuck in the mud, sand, snow, etc....
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Or if YOU get caught in mud, sand, snow, etc.
 
Harshaw said:
Or if YOU get caught in mud, sand, snow, etc.
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in AZ, there is some sand in the river bottoms, and on occasion, even some mud, but rarely snow...:2razz:
 
UtahBill said:
We produce and ship? are we chinese?
Consumption isn't the answer to everything, and even with current levels of consumption, there is still a lot of wasted energy.
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Yes, we do produce and ship. There are hundreds of thousands of people employed in logistics jobs in this country.

How many people do we all know who commute in a 4x4 3/4 ton truck, alone....?
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Most people that drive those vehicles have a real reason to own them.

How many of us over heat or cool our homes?
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And they pay te light bill, too. I know it sucks for folks like you, but we live in a free country.

How many of our homes are energy hogs because they were poorly designed and built?
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What are they to do? Get a subprime mortgage?
 
winston53660 said:
The infrastructure for the oil based economy was supported by the government.
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It's supported by the government, because there's no practical alternative.
 
Originally Posted by UtahBill
How about doing less? as in less wasting of energy resources....?
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What are we supposed to, walk to work, then come home and read Marx and Engels by candle light?
 
apdst said:
Yes, we do produce and ship. There are hundreds of thousands of people employed in logistics jobs in this country.



Most people that drive those vehicles have a real reason to own them.



And they pay te light bill, too. I know it sucks for folks like you, but we live in a free country.



What are they to do? Get a subprime mortgage?
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Bull, most 4x4 trucks in the USA never even see dirt. IF it wasn't for wet boat ramps, even people in LA wouldn't need them..:2razz: Yes, you are free to pay high prices, and they will get higher, and then you and so many others who can't think ahead will whine about the power companies ripping you off.
 
apdst said:
What are we supposed to, walk to work, then come home and read Marx and Engels by candle light?
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Well I use to take the subway to work. And I could walk to the grocery store, butcher green grocer and the pub.
 
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apdst said:
What are we supposed to, walk to work, then come home and read Marx and Engels by candle light?
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It should be intuitively obvious to the most casually educated observer that getting to work involves transportation and is necessary.
You are familiar with Marx and Engels? Learn that in home school, did you?
 
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