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'We hate the United States': Secessionists rally in Texas

Taylor said:
have faith that many are reading your interpretation and thinking to themselves, "lol"
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mmm perhaps,if that is you have multiple personalities, Otherwise, that raucous laughter you are suggesting is not directed at Catz at all
 
I just wanted to check in since I just returned from the clinic. It took them a while to attach all the little detector deelies since they wouldn't stick everywhere, but after I shaved my back things went smoothely enough. They opened up with a couple of soft tosses like "Do you love your dog", and "do you love your mom", mostly to check their calibration and whatnot. When they asked me "do you love your country?", all heck broke loose, though, becuse a surge of such unmititaged amplitude escaped me that all the wires started sizzling, the diodes fried and all the lights at the clinic flittered on and off before failing completely. Took out a whole power grid, I did.

What a shame, really, because they never got around to asking me whether I was a liberal or a conservative. It's comforting, though, to know that there are only two types of people and one of them is good and the other bad. It adds to my joy.
 
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Gardener said:
I just wanted to check in since I just returned from the clinic. It took them a while to attack all the little detector deelies since they wouldn't stick everywhere, but after I shaved my back things went smoothely enough. They opened up with a couple of soft tosses like "Do you love your dog", and "do you love your mom", mostly to check their calibration and whatnot. When they asked me "do you love your country?", all heck broke loose, though, becuse a surge of such unmititaged amplitude escaped me that all the wires started sizzling, the diodes fried and all the lights at the clinic flittered on and off before failing completely. Took out a whole power grid, I did.

What a shame, really, because they never got around to asking me whether I was a liberal or a conservative. It's comforting, though, to know that there are only two types of people and one of them is good and the other bad. It adds to my joy.
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you forgot to take a dump before you went to the clinic didnt you? It was your irregularity they picked up on silly!
 
marduc said:
you forgot to take a dump before you went to the clinic didnt you? It was your irregularity they picked up on silly!
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Well, it was kim chee night last night. It always messes up my pattern.
 
What I don't think Taylor realizes is that she has managed to get opposition to her idea from people who generally agree on very little if anything. When you get conservatives, liberals, and libertarians all saying you are wrong, it generally is pretty safe to say that you, at the very least, phrased yourself poorly.
 
Redress said:
What I don't think Taylor realizes is that she has managed to get opposition to her idea from people who generally agree on very little if anything. When you get conservatives, liberals, and libertarians all saying you are wrong, it generally is pretty safe to say that you, at the very least, phrased yourself poorly.
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It certainly shows the disagreement isn't ideological.
 
Coronado said:
I'd say that, logically speaking, you've had your ass handed to you.

Have you actually had any formal training in logic or are you just sorta winging it?
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Care to explain why -- from a logical perspective? I'd like to get in on record so (like Catz) people who actually understand logic can laugh and those who don't can't learn.

I know it deviates from your standard posting style of sitting back and interjecting simple one liners, but I have faith in you!
 
Redress said:
What I don't think Taylor realizes is that she has managed to get opposition to her idea from people who generally agree on very little if anything. When you get conservatives, liberals, and libertarians all saying you are wrong, it generally is pretty safe to say that you, at the very least, phrased yourself poorly.
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I don't think Redress realizes that I could care less what ideology people hold, when they're wrong they're wrong.
 
Taylor said:
Care to explain why -- from a logical perspective?
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Here ya go:
Taylor said:
Is this the liberals? I know that they don't like america as much as regular people.
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I'm going to differ slightly from my colleagues and call this a hasty generalization. Yes, there are liberals who don't like America as much as the average American. That does not mean that all liberals don't like America as much as the average American, or, save for some ability to quantify "like" and then measure it among people, that any such thing could be proven even if it were true. Clear enough?
Taylor said:
I'd like to get in on record so (like Catz) people who actually understand logic can laugh and those who don't can't learn.
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Whatever that means ... :confused:
Taylor said:
I know it deviates from your standard posting style of sitting back and interjecting simple one liners, but I have faith in you!
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Remember what I said about not going down that road? I wasn't kidding.
 
Taylor said:
I don't think Redress realizes that I could care less what ideology people hold, when they're wrong they're wrong.
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And yet you have, in your first few posts in this thread, attacked peoples ideology. Your very first post was an inaccurate attack on liberals. Further, you miss the point, which is that when people who normally don't agree on something, actually do agree, it might suggest that it is time to reassess what you have said. Rather than just assume you are right because you are the one who said it, it might be best to re-evaluate.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
I think pretty much everyone here except for you and Crunch agrees with Catz interpretation.
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Crunch hasn't said anything. There are currently four people (inc catz) who are equally confused concerning logical fallacies:
1) Catz
2) Dr Patrick
------------->Coronado (does not subscribe to Catz' reasoning)
3) Marduc

Now shall we rehash?

Here's the statement:
"Is this the liberals? I know that they don't like america as much as regular people."

Here's where Catz tries her best at creating a syllogism:lol::
Catz Part Deux said:
Because you've presented the argument as follows:

1. Some liberals hate America.
2. All conservatives love America.
3. Liberals don't love America as much as conservatives.

You went wrong at points 2 and 3. You've inappropriately generalized from an underrepresentative sample and stated something as fact when it isn't. We all recognize this, and you may too, at some point, when you've gotten a little more education under your belt.
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Catz fails at step one, and can't even get the basic premises right!
Here's Catz's logic:
1. Liberals don't like America as much as normal people
therefore:
2. Some liberals hate America

1. Liberals don't like America as much as normal people
therefore:
2. All conservatives love america

The only people embarrasing themselves are the four listed above and anyone else wanting to jump on this sinking bandwagon. What scares me most is what she would have come up with prior to "honing" her understanding of logic in Mr. Flanagan's class in high school, the 2 logic classes in college, not to mention the argumentation, rhetoric, and 7 years of debate (high school and college).

Catz fails to realize that my statement isn't even an argument, but tries to decompose it into a syllogism... priceless! :rofl

Scary, folks.
 
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Taylor said:
Care to explain why -- from a logical perspective?
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I can handle this quite easily actually. Let's look at what you said to start all this:

Taylor said:
Is this the liberals? I know that they don't like america as much as regular people.
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Taylor said:
Why is my statement wrong? It's liberals who snivel at people who are outwardly patriotic. And it's liberals that are always obsessed with changing the country -- i.e. it's not good the way it is. It's liberals that are embarrassed about our country and apologize for it.

I have no doubt that if I were to submit a "how much do you love your country" survey (say scale 1 to 10)... liberals would score lower.
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Now let's look at those statements. You attempted to make a broad, sweeping statement about a group of people(we love our country less as a group) with three statements. The first is laughable, since very few liberals "snivel at people who are patriotic". In point of fact, based on my observations from being a liberal, we mostly condemn those who do this. You are trying to use the acts of a few to smear a whole group.

Your second argument is even more laughable. Both ends of the political spectrum, and in fact those in the middle, think there are things that this country can do better. The desire to make the country as best it can be is, to my way of thinking, a great example of actually loving your country. I do not think there is anything greater we can do for our country.

Your last argument is pretty weak as well. Admitting that our country has made mistakes is not disliking our country. When we make a mistake, we should admit to the mistake, and apologize for it. To not do so is a sign of weakness to my mind.

So, all three of your arguments as to why us liberals love the country less than "regular people" are weak at best.
 
Taylor said:
Crunch hasn't said anything. There are currently four people (inc catz) who are equally confused concerning logical fallacies:
1) Catz
2) Dr Patrick
3) Coronado
4) Marduc
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Ignorance must be bliss, especially considering how tenaciously you hang on to it.

Dismissed.
 
Coronado said:
Here ya go:I'm going to differ slightly from my colleagues and call this a hasty generalization.
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Smart move. I'll have to remove your name from the Catz school of flawed logical arguments, above.

Coronado said:
Yes, there are liberals who don't like America as much as the average American. That does not mean that all liberals don't like America as much as the average American,
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The exact point I made early in this debate.

Coronado said:
or, save for some ability to quantify "like" and then measure it among people, that any such thing could be proven even if it were true. Clear enough?Whatever that means ...
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As was previously discussed, it can't be "proven." The theory of gravity can't be "proven". The point of DEBATE is to weigh the evidence (tons of it in the case of the theory of gravity), compare competing theories, and arrive at a conclusion(s).
 
Coronado said:
Ignorance must be bliss, especially considering how tenaciously you hang on to it.

Dismissed.
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I removed your name based on the explanation you provided.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Wow. You're totally not worth the effort. By the way, have you visited the Basement yet?
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I know -- to be able to discuss logic at my level you'd actually have to read that book you recommended, and taken a few more classes.

You just got spanked.
 
Redress said:
Now let's look at those statements. You attempted to make a broad, sweeping statement about a group of people(we love our country less as a group) with three statements. The first is laughable, since very few liberals "snivel at people who are patriotic". In point of fact, based on my observations from being a liberal, we mostly condemn those who do this. You are trying to use the acts of a few to smear a whole group.

Your second argument is even more laughable. Both ends of the political spectrum, and in fact those in the middle, think there are things that this country can do better. The desire to make the country as best it can be is, to my way of thinking, a great example of actually loving your country. I do not think there is anything greater we can do for our country.

Your last argument is pretty weak as well. Admitting that our country has made mistakes is not disliking our country. When we make a mistake, we should admit to the mistake, and apologize for it. To not do so is a sign of weakness to my mind.

So, all three of your arguments as to why us liberals love the country less than "regular people" are weak at best.
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Now, THAT'S a great post! This is debate!!! You make very good points -- I wish the dicusssion were like this 20 pages ago.

You:
1) actually identify an argument (three premises to support a conclusion)
2) counter each premise (note the premises don't have to be established facts!!!)
3) arrive at reasonable conclusion
 
Catz Part Deux said:
I'd have to go back to junior high again. And, at age 43, that's something I'm unwilling to do.
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I know it's hard to admit when you're wrong, hon -- but I know next time you try to pull that crap you'll do your homework.
 
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