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'We hate the United States': Secessionists rally in Texas

Glinda said:
Oddly enough, your conservative friends find self-confessed terrorists to be worthy of praise.



YouTube - Wally Herger Town Hall Remarks Redding
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You do realize that our esteemed, terrorist loving POTUS has labeled everyone who questions his policies or attends "tea parties" as terrorists? (along with people that have anti-abortion stickers on their cars, along with people that have 3rd party candidate stickers on their cars, along with returning Vets, etc.).... and we are proud of that label?
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Just as a suggestion, Taylor. Posting overgeneralizing, hyperpartisan stuff like you are will get you confronted and your positions to be shown fallacious pretty quickly.
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To my knowledge, nobody has shown my position to be fallacious.

CaptainCourtesy said:
You might want to start using the word "some" what you start attempting to make some of these silly overgeneralizations. It would make your positions seem far more valid, though, truthfully, any overgeneralizations about liberals or conservatives are pretty silly,
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I don't understand why you find generalizations so difficult to follow, sorry! :3oops:
 
Taylor said:
To my knowledge, nobody has shown my position to be fallacious.
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Taylor said:
Is this the liberals? I know that they don't like america as much as regular people.
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Your reasoning is faulty from the beginning. It relies upon the fallacy of Composition.

Fallacy: Composition
The first type of fallacy of Composition arises when a person reasons from the characteristics of individual members of a class or group to a conclusion regarding the characteristics of the entire class or group (taken as a whole). More formally, the "reasoning" would look something like this.

Individual F things have characteristics A, B, C, etc.
Therefore, the (whole) class of F things has characteristics A, B, C, etc.
This line of reasoning is fallacious because the mere fact that individuals have certain characteristics does not, in itself, guarantee that the class (taken as a whole) has those characteristics.
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You simply can't prove this claim, it's logically flawed.
 
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Crunch said:
You do realize that our esteemed, terrorist loving POTUS has labeled everyone who questions his policies or attends "tea parties" as terrorists?
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Link?

Along with people that have anti-abortion stickers on their cars
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Link?

Along with people that have 3rd party candidate stickers on their cars
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Link?

Along with returning Vets
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Link?

Thanks!
 
Crunch said:
You do realize that our esteemed, terrorist loving POTUS has labeled everyone who questions his policies or attends "tea parties" as terrorists? (along with people that have anti-abortion stickers on their cars, along with people that have 3rd party candidate stickers on their cars, along with returning Vets, etc.).... and we are proud of that label?
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You do realize that our esteemed, war-mongering former POTUS likened everyone who believes that bullets and bombs should be a LAST resort (to be used only if negotiations seriously deteriorate), to terrorist/Nazi appeasers? :doh

"Some seem to believe we should negotiate with terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along," said Bush, in what White House aides privately acknowledged was a reference to calls by Obama and other Democrats for the U.S. president to sit down for talks with leaders like Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

"We have heard this foolish delusion before," Bush said in remarks to the Israeli Knesset. "As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American Senator declared: 'Lord, if only I could have talked to Hitler, all of this might have been avoided.' We have an obligation to call this what it is -- the false comfort of appeasement, which has been repeatedly discredited by history."
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Redress said:
Yes, I do. Just because we disagree with you on the appropriate direction for our country does not mean we love that country any less. It is insulting and offensive to have people like you tell us that we somehow love our country less because we disagree with you on an issue.
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If I may be so bold -- you shouldn't let my opinions offend you, be stronger than that! IMO people get wayyyy too attached to labels these days. Just be your own person!

I'm sure somebody, somewhere has run a study like I suggested. I just wish I could find one. I do think it's generally accepted though that liberals are just not as happy overall, so it's kinda a life thing I guess.

[sorry CaptainCourtesy, I'm going to generalize again! This doesn't mean that there aren't any happy liberals!].
 
Taylor said:
I'm sure somebody, somewhere has run a study like I suggested. I just wish I could find one. I do think it's generally accepted though that liberals are just not as happy overall, so it's kinda a life thing I guess.
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If you can't find one, the most intellectually honest way to handle this is to clarify that it is your opinion, not just throw it out there as if it's factual (it isn't).
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Your reasoning is faulty from the beginning. It relies upon the fallacy of Composition.

Fallacy: Composition



You simply can't prove this claim, it's logically flawed.
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I don't think this applies, because i'm not claiming "characteristics of the entire class or group". That is, when I say "Pizza is good!" I'm not claiming that every single pizza out there is good, only that it's likely that if I were to have pizza, I'd like it.

I could meet a nice pit bull and faultily conclude that all pit bulls are nice. I think that would be composition.

But I'm saying "golden retrievers are nicer than pit bulls" that doesn't mean there aren't mean golden retrievers or nice pit bulls -- it's just talking to the overall likliehood.
 
Taylor said:
If I may be so bold -- you shouldn't let my opinions offend you, be stronger than that! IMO people get wayyyy too attached to labels these days. Just be your own person!

I'm sure somebody, somewhere has run a study like I suggested. I just wish I could find one. I do think it's generally accepted though that liberals are just not as happy overall, so it's kinda a life thing I guess.

[sorry CaptainCourtesy, I'm going to generalize again! This doesn't mean that there aren't any happy liberals!].
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And how do you measure happiness?
 
Taylor said:
I don't think this applies, because i'm not claiming "characteristics of the entire class or group".
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When you state, categorically, "I know that liberals don't like America as much as regular people," you are guilty of gross over-generalization. Among other things.
 
Taylor said:
I don't think this applies, because i'm not claiming "characteristics of the entire class or group". That is, when I say "Pizza is good!" I'm not claiming that every single pizza out there is good, only that it's likely that if I were to have pizza, I'd like it.

I could meet a nice pit bull and faultily conclude that all pit bulls are nice. I think that would be composition.

But I'm saying "golden retrievers are nicer than pit bulls" that doesn't mean there aren't mean golden retrievers or nice pit bulls -- it's just talking to the overall likliehood.
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NO, what you are doing is making broad, unsubstantiated claims that have no basis in fact, and using them to suggest something that makes you feel better. There is no evidence that liberals love their country less than conservatives, there is no evidence that conservatives are more happy then liberals, and there is no evidence that any of your claims have any basis in reality.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
If you can't find one, the most intellectually honest way to handle this is to clarify that it is your opinion, not just throw it out there as if it's factual (it isn't).
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Now you're just stating YOUR opinion ;) unless of course you've got an ace up your sleeve to prove otherwise.
 
Taylor said:
Now you're just stating YOUR opinion ;) unless of course you've got an ace up your sleeve to prove otherwise.
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You made the claim, it is up to you to prove it.
 
Taylor said:
I don't think this applies, because i'm not claiming "characteristics of the entire class or group". That is, when I say "Pizza is good!" I'm not claiming that every single pizza out there is good, only that it's likely that if I were to have pizza, I'd like it.
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This is precisely the problem with your presentation of liberals in your first post here. You attempted to present it as fact, when in reality, like you liking pizza, it is only opinion. Just because you like pizza, doesn't mean that pizza is good. It means that, most likely, pizza is good FOR YOU. See the difference?

I could meet a nice pit bull and faultily conclude that all pit bulls are nice. I think that would be composition.
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And that is the error that you made when you drew your conclusions about liberals.

But I'm saying "golden retrievers are nicer than pit bulls" that doesn't mean there aren't mean golden retrievers or nice pit bulls -- it's just talking to the overall likliehood.
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Which is your opinion.
 
Taylor said:
I don't think this applies, because i'm not claiming "characteristics of the entire class or group". That is, when I say "Pizza is good!" I'm not claiming that every single pizza out there is good, only that it's likely that if I were to have pizza, I'd like it.

I could meet a nice pit bull and faultily conclude that all pit bulls are nice. I think that would be composition.

But I'm saying "golden retrievers are nicer than pit bulls" that doesn't mean there aren't mean golden retrievers or nice pit bulls -- it's just talking to the overall likliehood.
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Sorry. Fail. I like you, would love to see you spank Glinda further, but you're mistaken here.
 
Taylor said:
To my knowledge, nobody has shown my position to be fallacious.
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Let me explain the rules of debate. You make a claim, it is up to YOU to substantiate it. Not others to prove you wrong. So, substantiate.


I don't understand why you find generalizations so difficult to follow, sorry! :3oops:
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I have no problem following generalizations, but you need to identify them as such, not as facts. These are your opinions that you have presented.
 
Taylor said:
Now you're just stating YOUR opinion ;) unless of course you've got an ace up your sleeve to prove otherwise.
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No, I'm relying upon standard logical practice. Consider taking a debate/logic class before you graduate, it will do you a world of good.
 
Taylor said:
Now you're just stating YOUR opinion ;) unless of course you've got an ace up your sleeve to prove otherwise.
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You presented a position. Unless you can substantiate it, it is nothing more than an opinion. When you present it as fact, you will be asked to prove it. If you can't, then it is not a fact. This is how to debate logically.
 
Redress said:
NO, what you are doing is making broad, unsubstantiated claims that have no basis in fact, and using them to suggest something that makes you feel better. There is no evidence that liberals love their country less than conservatives, there is no evidence that conservatives are more happy then liberals, and there is no evidence that any of your claims have any basis in reality.
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As I said earlier, I did substantiate my claims. Not as well as I would have liked, but this is a discussion board, no? Are we not allowed to discuss our thoughts until someone else has come to a conclusion? Sheesh.

BTW, there's lots of evidence that liberals are not as happy as conservatives:
(hopefully I can paste links in here)

Why Are Conservatives Happier Than Liberals?
http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic526279.files
/Napier%20Jost%20Why%20Are%20Conservatives%20Happier.pdf

Why are liberals so bummed out?
Why Conservatives Say They Are Happier Than Liberals - US News and World Report

Smile if (and Only if) You're Conservative
George F. Will - Smile if (and Only if) You're Conservative - washingtonpost.com

It makes sense when you think about it. The democratic party attracts a confederacy of unhappy people: welfare recipients, people living off of social security, certain minority groups, etc. Further, Liberal dogma teaches people that they've been oppressed and that they need help from government in order to make their dreams come true (external locus of control).

Now it may be the case that these people love their country as much as those who are generally happier and don't share that same worldview, but I doubt it.
 
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Taylor said:
As I said earlier, I did substantiate my claims. Not as well as I would have liked, but this is a discussion board, no? Are we not allowed to discuss our thoughts until someone else has come to a conclusion? Sheesh..
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WE deal in facts here. If you are expressing an opinion, simply qualify it as your opinion and you won't take this heat in the future. All you have to say is, "I think liberals ________."

But, when you issue a proclamation that liberals don't love America, that's both unproveable and offensive. Deal with it.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Sorry. Fail. I like you, would love to see you spank Glinda further, but you're mistaken here.
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In what way? This is irrelevant to my argument. I'm not making an inductive fallacy.
 
stekim said:
Link?



Link?



Link?



Link?

Thanks!
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The possible passage of new restrictions on firearms and the return of
military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities
could lead to the potential emergence of terrorist groups or lone wolf extremists
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Returning veterans possess combat skills and experience that are
attractive to rightwing extremists.
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http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf

If you have bumper stickers on your cars that support third-party candidates, the Constitution, state sovereignty, a church or Christian symbols, the National Rifle Association and pro gun slogans, and other conservative slogans, state police are supposed to approach your car with caution. This is clearly an attack on the First Amendment coming from the Governor’s office, as well as Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC). According the report, if you defend the Constitution, federalism, the fight against legal immigration, and other issues, the state of Missouri may be collecting information about you geared towards labeling you as a domestic terrorist. I bet, considering my views on Governor Nixon, I may already be on the list. This attacks all conservative views.
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BBCW: Is Your Bumper Sticker Labeling You a Domestic Terrorist?: Bumper Sticker Profiling in Missouri

miac strategic report pdf:

http://www.constitution.org/abus/le/miac-strategic-report.pdf

"Jay" Nixon, Govenor of Missouri:

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Nixon]Jay Nixon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Specifically: Dem Rep. Brian Baird of Washington State has canceled in-person town halls, citing the protestors’ use of “Brown Shirt tactics.” The Colombian reports…

Instead of appearing in person, where “extremists” would have “the chance to shout and make YouTube videos,” Baird said Wednesday, he’s holding what he calls “telephone town halls” instead.

Baird said he’s using the new system because he fears his political opponents may be planning “an ambush” to disrupt his meetings, using methods Baird compared to Nazism.

“What we’re seeing right now is close to Brown Shirt tactics,” Baird, D-Vancouver, said in a phone interview. “I mean that very seriously.”
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Dem Congressman Cancels Town Halls, Says He Fears “Brown Shirt Tactics” | The Plum Line

I could go on and on.... but us terrorists get the point, and we are proud of it.
 
Taylor said:
As I said earlier, I did substantiate my claims. Not as well as I would have liked, but this is a discussion board, no? Are we not allowed to discuss our thoughts until someone else has come to a conclusion? Sheesh.

BTW, there's lots of evidence that liberals are not as happy as conservatives:
(hopefully I can paste links in here)

Why Are Conservatives Happier Than Liberals?
http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic526279.files
/Napier%20Jost%20Why%20Are%20Conservatives%20Happier.pdf

Why are liberals so bummed out?
Why Conservatives Say They Are Happier Than Liberals - US News and World Report

Smile if (and Only if) You're Conservative
George F. Will - Smile if (and Only if) You're Conservative - washingtonpost.com

It makes sense when you think about it. The democratic party attracts a confederacy of unhappy people: welfare recipients, people living off of social security, certain minority groups, etc. Further, Liberal dogma teaches people that they've been oppressed and that they need help from government in order to make their dreams come true (external locus of control).

Now it may be the case that these people love their country as much as those who are generally happier and don't share that same worldview, but I doubt it.
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Hmm ... the Limbaugh is strong in this one.
 
Redress said:
You made the claim, it is up to you to prove it.
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I'm trying to debate here, and you all want to ignore the thinking part and jump right in to copy what others have thought and decided to write down. If you want to debate, please provide some evidence. It need not be conclusive. The goal here is to weigh evidence from both sides.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
This is precisely the problem with your presentation of liberals in your first post here. You attempted to present it as fact, when in reality, like you liking pizza, it is only opinion. Just because you like pizza, doesn't mean that pizza is good. It means that, most likely, pizza is good FOR YOU. See the difference?
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That's not the context I was using the pizza analogy. It is a fact that I like pizza... but that doesn't mean I like every single pizza ever made.

CaptainCourtesy said:
Which is your opinion.
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Have I stumbled into the twilight zone? When you guys have conflicting opinions you call the debate over and hope that someone else will step up to the plate so you'll have a handy link?
 
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