Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 63

Thread: CIA enhanced interigation docs released. Cheney responds

  1. #51
    Professor
    formerroadie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Last Seen
    06-23-10 @ 08:50 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    2,014

    Re: CIA enhanced interigation docs released. Cheney responds

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If we weren't out there twisting a few arms, it could easily be 30,000.
    That is completely and utterly unprovable.
    It's time for a revolution in our country. Not a revolution forged with guns and bombs but a revolution forged of compassion and altruism. A revolution that extends a hand to those who don't have and who cannot. A revolution that makes Health Care available to all those in the US.

  2. #52
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,360

    Re: CIA enhanced interigation docs released. Cheney responds

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Soldiers are American citizens.

    Every action we take has risk for civilians. To be safe, we would have to close our borders, and expand our military to totally guard and control those borders. This is obviously a bad idea, but with our borders not being closed, we greatly increase the chance of Americans being killed. Every action we take overseas is likely to have some element of risk for civilians at home. That does not mean we should not take those actions overseas.

    Hundreds of thousands of Americans have died to uphold and defend the American system and American ideals. To scrap our system of laws because it might mean a little added risk to us would be, to my mind, akin to pissing on the sacrifices made by those who died defending our system of laws.
    Since we can't seal our borders and expand our military, we are forced to depend on the clandestine services to do things that may not always be that pretty, in the interest of protecting the country.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #53
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,360

    Re: CIA enhanced interigation docs released. Cheney responds

    Quote Originally Posted by formerroadie View Post
    That is completely and utterly unprovable.
    Intel is crucial to military units. A lack of that intel will cost lives on the battlefield. That's an irrefutable fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  4. #54
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:58 AM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,299
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: CIA enhanced interigation docs released. Cheney responds

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Since we can't seal our borders and expand our military, we are forced to depend on the clandestine services to do things that may not always be that pretty, in the interest of protecting the country.
    And doing so pissed on the sacrifice made by those who defended our system of laws and our ideals.

  5. #55
    Guru
    Morality Games's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Last Seen
    05-24-16 @ 10:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    3,733

    Re: CIA enhanced interigation docs released. Cheney responds

    Enhanced interrogation methods may produce useful information, but at the expense of a virtuous reputation. Such a reputation is instrumental to securing the good will of our allies and those countries we occupy.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 08-26-09 at 07:20 PM.

  6. #56
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,360

    Re: CIA enhanced interigation docs released. Cheney responds

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    And doing so pissed on the sacrifice made by those who defended our system of laws and our ideals.
    I think you're so very wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  7. #57
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Last Seen
    01-03-16 @ 02:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,761

    Re: CIA enhanced interigation docs released. Cheney responds

    Quote Originally Posted by braindrain View Post
    So we would have had more honor if we would have let them attack us and kill innocent civillians all the while knowing that we could have stoped it by using those methods. I wonder if you would have felt the same way if one of the attacks that was prevented would have killed someone in your family.
    YES. A person will tell you that he's the queen of england if you torutured him long enough.

    I'm sorry, but we live in a dangerous world, and unfortunately people die... noone gets out of this life alive either way. You can't trade freedom for security because eventually everyone is guilty.

    Also, if you torture your enemies, you are inviting your enemies to 'return the favor'... So, if you can't stand for providing prisoners of war with some sort of dignity then you'll be come a monster.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Since we can't seal our borders and expand our military, we are forced to depend on the clandestine services to do things that may not always be that pretty, in the interest of protecting the country.
    Very machivellian... evil for good, makes people corrupt and the 'good' that was intended ends up lost, or at a greater cost then doing the good the whole way through.

    I don't expect to change the way things operate in that sense, but more to point out the flaw in the logic. I mean, if you could blow up a building with a few thousand people in order to kill a dictator... then it would be worth nuking a city to save the world... right?? Killing the 90% so that top benefit of the top 10%? Where does it end?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Enhanced interrogation methods may produce useful information, but at the expense of a virtuous reputation. Such a reputation is instrumental to securing the good will of our allies and those countries we occupy.
    LOL... kinda like that one guy who under 'enhanced interrogation' (re:torture) took credit for the bombing of a building that was builit 3 years after he had been in custody...

    Really... a person will say abosolutely anything you want them to say if you 'interrogate' them hard enough and long enough. Make them feel like they are on the verge of death for days at a time and I bet you could get some pretty incriminating evidence.

  8. #58
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Last Seen
    01-03-16 @ 02:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,761

    Re: CIA enhanced interigation docs released. Cheney responds

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Intel is crucial to military units. A lack of that intel will cost lives on the battlefield. That's an irrefutable fact.
    Woah woah woah... you're comparing apples and oranges here...

    Now, on a battlefield, or a warzone and you capture someone that you know has information... you were already going to kill him anyway, so make him talk before... whatever... not to mention the intel provided from other sources... With all the drones, sattelites, and all sorts of technologies that provide information on the ground.

    That's a different story from getting the guy to a detention centre, likely in another country, and any information provided is likely to be 'stale'... not to mention how long it takes you to get the guy to 'crack'. Also not mentioning what people will say to get the torture to stop.

  9. #59
    Sage
    akyron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Texas
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:50 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    6,455

    Re: CIA enhanced interigation docs released. Cheney responds

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    you can't place your moral tone above the lives of other Americans.
    Thats it right there. The basic selfish selflessnes of liberalism that invent things like "forced" charity. The entire idea that your "honor" is worth more than countless innocents illustrates that selfishness. If you cant take the hit then stay on the sidelines. We should at least appreciate those who do take the hit for us.
    Thank you

  10. #60
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Last Seen
    01-03-16 @ 02:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,761

    Re: CIA enhanced interigation docs released. Cheney responds

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    Thats it right there. The basic selfish selflessnes of liberalism that invent things like "forced" charity. The entire idea that your "honor" is worth more than countless innocents illustrates that selfishness. If you cant take the hit then stay on the sidelines. We should at least appreciate those who do take the hit for us.
    Let's not delude ourselves... the world is NOT a safe place, even with a cop on every street corner would not make things any safer... some woould rightfully argue it'd make things MORE dangerous.

    So, if the evils that get done in the name of 'protecting' our country wind up destroying the country and what it stands for, is that 'worth it'??

    Safety at the barrel of a gun is not my idea of safety... and it's definately not an idea of freedom. Freedom requires the use of guns, but mostly they are holstered.

    Innocent people will die all the time... this cannot be prevented no matter how much 'safety' is in place. "For your protection" is the sales pitch of a tyrant, and I've yet to be shown a benevolant tyrant.

Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •