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Thread: States with most uninsured most likely to believe euthanasia myths

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    Re: States with most uninsured most likely to believe euthanasia myths

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    The government can and must ration what it will cover. Those who want gold plated coverage can and should get a gold plated supplemental plan. I have no problem with that. Notice that Steve Jobs had no difficulty getting a liver transplant. Those who have the money will always be able to purchase the best health care. I don't really have a problem with that. Do you? Medical technology has exceeded our ability to pay for everything for everyone to extend life to the maximum fraction of a day.
    Sounds like we're only re-inventing the wheel. Only difference is, the government will control our health care. Something makes me think that's not such a great idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: States with most uninsured most likely to believe euthanasia myths

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post

    SO, I'm thrilled that we have an agreement that the so called "death panels" are not a "fabrication of the right" and are actually true.

    The government will, eventally, end up determining who is eligible to receive treatmen and in so doing, decide who will, essentially, die.
    No the "death panel" B.S. is an example of right-wing propoganda. As I am sure you know it is a separate issue from rationing. Encouraging people to discuss end of life issues with their primary care physician just makes sense.

    An example of rationing: Jane Doe cannot become pregnant. The gov't health care plan allows, say, 3 tries at I.V.F. After that she will have to pay for it out of pocket. Does that restrict her freedom? I think not. It is exactly want happens in our private insurance system, now.

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    Re: States with most uninsured most likely to believe euthanasia myths

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    No the "death panel" B.S. is an example of right-wing propoganda. As I am sure you know it is a separate issue from rationing. Encouraging people to discuss end of life issues with their primary care physician just makes sense.

    An example of rationing: Jane Doe cannot become pregnant. The gov't health care plan allows, say, 3 tries at I.V.F. After that she will have to pay for it out of pocket. Does that restrict her freedom? I think not. It is exactly want happens in our private insurance system, now.
    Yeah, it was so much BS that they pulled that section from the bill. You know; the part that said, "the secretary will issue and order to sustain life".
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: States with most uninsured most likely to believe euthanasia myths

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Yeah, it was so much BS that they pulled that section from the bill. You know; the part that said, "the secretary will issue and order to sustain life".
    People have to die. I don't understand the obsession with "death panels". Maybe you can inform me?

    At the end of my Mom's life, the Doc's continued to give her chemo. They made money, of course. My Mom was Dying!! Her last 6 month, you would not subject to a dog. That is where our health care $$$ are spent: Sustaining people who will not improve, at great expense.

    Congratulations- the status quo will probably continue, at great expense, because NO ONE wants to make the difficult end of life decisions. I just hope that when I get there I am physically able to walk off a cliff so I don't end up tied to a bed.
    Last edited by Cassandra; 08-23-09 at 10:35 PM.

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    Re: States with most uninsured most likely to believe euthanasia myths

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    At the end of my Mom's life, the Doc's continued to give her chemo. They made money, of course. My Mom was Dying!! Her last 6 month, you would not subject to a dog. That is where our health care $$$ are spent: Sustaining people who will not improve, at great expense.
    I'm sorry your mom had to go through that. I know the end of life for a cancer patient is always hard.

    But, that was a decision between your mom (family) and her doctor. The government shouldn't be in that discussion at all.

    I believe the govt will eventually have to be rationing that treatment (much like NICE).

    This might be years down the road from initial implementation (or sooner) but it will evetnually happen.

    That to me is a death panel.

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    Re: States with most uninsured most likely to believe euthanasia myths

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I'm sorry your mom had to go through that. I know the end of life for a cancer patient is always hard.

    But, that was a decision between your mom (family) and her doctor. The government shouldn't be in that discussion at all.
    And Medicare would pay for that consultation. Physicians and patients will be better informed about the usefulness of (say) another round of chemo because the gov't will have completed effectiveness research. One aspect of medicine that is under appreciated is the benefit of DOING NOTHING. Americans are extremely biased in favor of heroic efforts, forgetful of the fact that surgery and chemo can do more harm than good- especially with the elderly.

    Most people say they would prefer to die at home, they nonetheless die in an institution. Many people don't really discuss or plan these things until it is too late.

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    Re: States with most uninsured most likely to believe euthanasia myths

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    And Medicare would pay for that consultation. Physicians and patients will be better informed about the usefulness of (say) another round of chemo because the gov't will have completed effectiveness research. One aspect of medicine that is under appreciated is the benefit of DOING NOTHING. Americans are extremely biased in favor of heroic efforts, forgetful of the fact that surgery and chemo can do more harm than good- especially with the elderly.

    Most people say they would prefer to die at home, they nonetheless die in an institution. Many people don't really discuss or plan these things until it is too late.
    My grandfather also died of cancer - he worked construction and his was related to asbestoes exposure

    When he first found out, he planned on having chemo and radiation. However, after he had a second (and third) opinion - all paid for by medicare - he decided that he didn't want it.

    He believed that the chemo would not do anything but make his last days sicker then anything.

    A decision made by himself, the family and the doctors. The government should not be involved in that decision at all - and they will evenually be, due to the "Rationing" you describe, or the costs the government will be incurring. "Death Panel".
    Last edited by buck; 08-24-09 at 12:19 PM.

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    Re: States with most uninsured most likely to believe euthanasia myths

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    My grandfather also died of cancer - he worked construction and his was related to asbestoes exposure

    When he first found out, he planned on having chemo and radiation. However, after he had a second (and third) opinion - all paid for by medicare - he decided that he didn't want it.

    He believed that the chemo would not do anything but make his last days sicker then anything.

    A decision made by himself, the family and the doctors. The government should not be involved in that decision at all - and they will evenually be, due to the "Rationing" you describe, or the costs the government will be incurring. "Death Panel".
    Medicare (government provided healthcare) has been in place for nearly 45 years and hasn't attempted your paranoid scenario.

    Additionally, this bill doesn't touch the way Medicare is run..

    If you cannot think rationally and use reason and critical thinking skills you are just going to wind up hurting your family's livelyhood.

    Wake up.

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    Re: States with most uninsured most likely to believe euthanasia myths

    Quote Originally Posted by dragondad View Post
    Medicare (government provided healthcare) has been in place for nearly 45 years and hasn't attempted your paranoid scenario.

    Additionally, this bill doesn't touch the way Medicare is run..

    If you cannot think rationally and use reason and critical thinking skills you are just going to wind up hurting your family's livelyhood.

    Wake up.
    Meicare is nearly out of money, and it only covers seniors. How long until a bill that will end up covering most Americans will be out of money? How much do you really think raising taxes on the "rich" will provide?

    The government will have to start rationing the care people recieve. Much like nearly any other UHC out there.

    There is no possible way the gov't will be able to afford everything for everyone - hard decisions will have to be made, and many will be made by the govt.

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    Re: States with most uninsured most likely to believe euthanasia myths

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Meicare is nearly out of money, and it only covers seniors. How long until a bill that will end up covering most Americans will be out of money? How much do you really think raising taxes on the "rich" will provide?

    The government will have to start rationing the care people recieve. Much like nearly any other UHC out there.

    There is no possible way the gov't will be able to afford everything for everyone - hard decisions will have to be made, and many will be made by the govt.
    OR they can make the sacrifice primarily on the drug companies, insurance companies and other fat cats in the medical industry......but wait!

    The GOP will not go for that either!

    The public option that this bill offers is the building block for all these other cost saving measures to work....

    GOP supporters are cutting their own throat by opposing the public option.

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