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Thread: States with most uninsured most likely to believe euthanasia myths

  1. #31
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    Re: States with most uninsured most likely to believe euthanasia myths

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    So basically, what you are saying is that you are choosing to be uninsured, thus if you need serious medical attention, you will go to an emergency room, rack tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills (or more), and the costs will be passed on to the rest of us.

    Great system.
    how presumptious of you. I do have a plan. I would just withdraw the necessary money from the bank and pay it back after I am well. I have above-average credit and personally know my banker, so it would never be a problem.

    And, not to be so pessimistic(I thought liberals were never pessimistic ) If I don't get into an emergency situation like that, I make out like bandit from not paying the premiums. I win.
    try again?
    Last edited by DarkWizard12; 08-22-09 at 10:45 PM.

  2. #32
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    Re: States with most uninsured most likely to believe euthanasia myths

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    It's weird because that's completely different from what my dad said when I asked him about it last night, and he's had a lot of experience helping his own parents pay their medical costs.
    Well your father is mistaken then.

    Medicare Part A and B:

    Part A: Hospital Insurance
    Part A covers inpatient hospital stays (at least overnight), including semiprivate room, food, tests, and doctor's fees.
    Part A covers brief stays for convalescence in a skilled nursing facility if certain criteria are met:
    A preceding hospital stay must be at least three days, three midnights, not counting the discharge date.
    The nursing home stay must be for something diagnosed during the hospital stay or for the main cause of hospital stay. For instance, a hospital stay for a broken hip and then a nursing home stay for physical therapy would not be covered.
    If the patient is not receiving rehabilitation but has some other ailment that requires skilled nursing supervision then the nursing home stay would be covered.
    The care being rendered by the nursing home must be skilled. Medicare part A does not pay for custodial, non-skilled, or long-term care activities, including activities of daily living (ADLs) such as personal hygiene, cooking, cleaning, etc.
    The maximum length of stay that Medicare Part A will cover in a skilled nursing facility per ailment is 100 days. The first 20 days would be paid for in full by Medicare with the remaining 80 days requiring a co-payment (as of 2009, $133.50 per day). Many insurance companies have a provision for skilled nursing care in the policies they sell.
    If a beneficiary uses some portion of their Part A benefit and then goes at least 60 days without receiving facility-based skilled services, the 100-day clock is reset and the person qualifies for a new 100-day benefit period.

    Part B: Medical Insurance
    Part B medical insurance helps pay for some services and products not covered by Part A, generally on an outpatient basis. Part B is optional and may be deferred if the beneficiary or their spouse is still actively working. There is a lifetime penalty (10% per year) imposed for not enrolling in Part B unless actively working.
    Part B coverage includes physician and nursing services, x-rays, laboratory and diagnostic tests, influenza and pneumonia vaccinations, blood transfusions, renal dialysis, outpatient hospital procedures, limited ambulance transportation, immunosuppressive drugs for organ transplant recipients, chemotherapy, hormonal treatments such as Lupron, and other outpatient medical treatments administered in a doctor's office. Medication administration is covered under Part B only if it is administered by the physician during an office visit.
    Part B also helps with durable medical equipment (DME), including canes, walkers, wheelchairs, and mobility scooters for those with mobility impairments. Prosthetic devices such as artificial limbs and breast prosthesis following mastectomy, as well as one pair of eyeglasses following cataract surgery, and oxygen for home use is also covered.[8]
    Complex rules are used to manage the benefit, and advisories are periodically issued which describe coverage criteria. On the national level these advisories are issued by CMS, and are known as National Coverage Determinations (NCD). Local Coverage Determinations (LCD) only apply within the multi-state area managed by a specific regional Medicare Part B contractor, and Local Medical Review Policies (LMRP) were superseded by LCDs in 2003. Coverage information is also located in the CMS Internet-Only Manuals (IOM), the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), the Social Security Act, and the Federal Register.

    The reason why senior many times get Medicare supplements is not because Medicare coverage is any worse than private sector plans they previously would have had through their employer, but rather because they utilize medical care far more than they did when they were younger, and are on a fixed income, the copays and coinsurance is more of a financial burden on them than it would have been when they were younger and in better health. Thus they get a supplemental policy to assist paying that.

    The problem with Medicare is not that its crappy insurance, its in fact great insurance, it has higher satisfaction rates among its recipients than any private sector insurance plan. The problem is that health care is getting so expensive and so many people are on it, some 42 million, that its future fiscal solvency is in question.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  3. #33
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    Re: States with most uninsured most likely to believe euthanasia myths

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    how presumptious of you. I do have a plan. I would just withdraw the necessary money from the bank and pay it back after I am well. I have above-average credit and personally know my banker, so it would never be a problem.

    And, not to be so pessimistic(I thought liberals were never pessimistic ) If I don't get into an emergency situation like that, I make out like bandit from not paying the premiums. I win.
    try again?
    The problem is the risk posed by your not carrying at least a catastrophic policy is born by everyone else. If you were to God forbid get cancer or something, good credit or not, you are not going to be able to go get a loan to pay your hundreds of thousands of medical bills. The hospital that treats you will simply pass those costs to those that have insurance.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  4. #34
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    Re: States with most uninsured most likely to believe euthanasia myths

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    The problem is the risk posed by your not carrying at least a catastrophic policy is born by everyone else. The hospital that treats you will simply pass those costs to those that have insurance.
    I think the hospital would just spread thoses costs to everyone that recieves service ther, not just to those that have insurance.

    But, if he had insurance, the insurance company would simply pass those costs around to everyone else that has insurance.

    If he is enrolled in the government option, which I think will become more then just an option for most, those costs will just be spread around to all of us, the taxpayers.

    Other then the size of the pools, I'm not certain I see too much of a difference.

  5. #35
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    Re: States with most uninsured most likely to believe euthanasia myths

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    The problem with Medicare is not that its crappy insurance, its in fact great insurance, it has higher satisfaction rates among its recipients than any private sector insurance plan.
    1. I'd like to see proof of those satisfaction rates
    2. If it's so great, then how come, as you admitted, people want more than it can offer?
    3. You do realize that some doctors don't even accept Medicare? I know this because apparently it happened to my grandpa. It's so much more costly and risky to use for the doctor that they sometimes don't even accept it.

    The problem is that health care is getting so expensive and so many people are on it, some 42 million, that its future fiscal solvency is in question.
    Well yes, that's another problem with it.

  6. #36
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    Re: States with most uninsured most likely to believe euthanasia myths

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I think the difference is that insurance companies have contracts with the insureds. If a 90 YO woman has insurance policy and that contract covers treatments, the insurance company will cover it,. If they deny the treatment that should be contractually covered, they will be sued and rightfully lose. Contract law applies to both signers of the contract.

    Good luck suing the federal government once they go the way of determining who gets treatment and who doesn't. WHich will have to happen eventually.
    The government can and must ration what it will cover. Those who want gold plated coverage can and should get a gold plated supplemental plan. I have no problem with that. Notice that Steve Jobs had no difficulty getting a liver transplant. Those who have the money will always be able to purchase the best health care. I don't really have a problem with that. Do you? Medical technology has exceeded our ability to pay for everything for everyone to extend life to the maximum fraction of a day.

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    Re: States with most uninsured most likely to believe euthanasia myths

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    1. I'd like to see proof of those satisfaction rates
    National Journal Online - Who's Afraid Of Public Insurance?
    More importantly, the higher scores for Medicare are based on perceptions of better access to care. More than two thirds (70 percent) of traditional Medicare enrollees say they "always" get access to needed care (appointments with specialists or other necessary tests and treatment), compared with 63 percent in Medicare managed care plans and only 51 percent of those with private insurance.
    PeteEU

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    Re: States with most uninsured most likely to believe euthanasia myths

    Quote Originally Posted by formerroadie View Post
    Well, not that this is a surprise, but the uneducated in this country and the poor are really being taken advantage of by the right wingnuts. Sad really.

    States With Most Uninsured Most Likely To Believe Euthanasia, Govt. Takeover Myths



    And before you come yelling at me for siting an article using one poll, these poll results back up others on the same topic.
    I think what we are seeing are the fruits of the Republican "think" tanks who have spent many years crafting language to frame the issues and distort the political discourse. Then they disseminate the talking points to talk show hosts and the media. The "death Panel" notion is Exhibit A

    George Lakoff has written books about this:

    Language always comes with what is called "framing." Every word is defined relative to a conceptual framework. If you have something like "revolt," that implies a population that is being ruled unfairly, or assumes it is being ruled unfairly, and that they are throwing off their rulers, which would be considered a good thing. That's a frame.....

    And now, as the New York Times Magazine quoted Paul Weyrich, who started the Heritage Foundation, they have 1,500 conservative radio talk show hosts. They have a huge, very good operation, and they understand their own moral system. They understand what unites conservatives, and they understand how to talk about it, and they are constantly updating their research on how best to express their ideas.


    I heard an interview with randomly chosen people in some southern city on the topic of health care. What I found remarkable was the serenely expressed conflicting notions contained in one brain. Lots of people said things like; "oh yeh, I think the government needs to do much more to help people with their health care...but, I don't want any of that socialized medicine thing!"

  9. #39
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    Re: States with most uninsured most likely to believe euthanasia myths

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    I think what we are seeing are the fruits of the Republican "think" tanks who have spent many years crafting language to frame the issues and distort the political discourse. Then they disseminate the talking points to talk show hosts and the media. The "death Panel" notion is Exhibit A

    George Lakoff has written books about this:

    Language always comes with what is called "framing." Every word is defined relative to a conceptual framework. If you have something like "revolt," that implies a population that is being ruled unfairly, or assumes it is being ruled unfairly, and that they are throwing off their rulers, which would be considered a good thing. That's a frame.....

    And now, as the New York Times Magazine quoted Paul Weyrich, who started the Heritage Foundation, they have 1,500 conservative radio talk show hosts. They have a huge, very good operation, and they understand their own moral system. They understand what unites conservatives, and they understand how to talk about it, and they are constantly updating their research on how best to express their ideas.


    I heard an interview with randomly chosen people in some southern city on the topic of health care. What I found remarkable was the serenely expressed conflicting notions contained in one brain. Lots of people said things like; "oh yeh, I think the government needs to do much more to help people with their health care...but, I don't want any of that socialized medicine thing!"
    True. I totally understand the power of language. It can be used to spread lies, move people in their emotions, and promote good causes. I find the Republican think tanks are really outdoing themselves right now and stirring up their base to challenge something they completely don't understand.
    It's time for a revolution in our country. Not a revolution forged with guns and bombs but a revolution forged of compassion and altruism. A revolution that extends a hand to those who don't have and who cannot. A revolution that makes Health Care available to all those in the US.

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    Re: States with most uninsured most likely to believe euthanasia myths

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    The government can and must ration what it will cover.
    SO, I'm thrilled that we have an agreement that the so called "death panels" are not a "fabrication of the right" and are actually true.

    The government will, eventally, end up determining who is eligible to receive treatmen and in so doing, decide who will, essentially, die.

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