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How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

The problem these Union Goons have is they don't understand a blasted thing from a management perspective. They don't know what those responsiblilites require.

Unions don't want responsibility, just power.
I have witnessed unions protecting lazy and incompetent workers. WHY would anyone do that?
 
Unions don't want responsibility, just power.
I have witnessed unions protecting lazy and incompetent workers. WHY would anyone do that?

Agreed...How many times have we all witnessed Construction Crews with 1 guy working,,,and 5 others sitting around doing nothing? :roll: The same goes at Ship Yards, the Docks and Wharehouse Facilites I visit on the job...1-2 working, the rest at a complete stand still.:roll:
 
Agreed...How many times have we all witnessed Construction Crews with 1 guy working,,,and 5 others sitting around doing nothing? :roll: The same goes at Ship Yards, the Docks and Wharehouse Facilites I visit on the job...1-2 working, the rest at a complete stand still.:roll:

And remember those "Job Pools" that the UAW had??
 
And remember those "Job Pools" that the UAW had??

What continues to amaze me about the United Auto Workers is that they still support the B.O. Administration, after the Dems just castrated GM. I guess they're satisfied with the "Cash for Clunkers" will keep some of them working for a few extra months.:roll:
 
You've yet NOT to deny anything I've Posted,,,while claiming everything is just a "misunderstanding". As you're doing now. :lol: I agree, this engagement has been of low-value. My "Position" hasn't changed, I still think the Govt. and Unions have NO Business in Private Enterprise. You do.

Read this: Union Scandals - Google Search

Yes. I have denied things that you have posted. You said that card check will cause members to lose control of their unions. I have said that this is false. This is a misunderstanding on your part. Your posting compared a secret ballot election monitored by the NLRB to the Iranian presidential elections. I said this is a bogus comparison because the Iranian presidential elections were won through fraud. These are clear misunderstandings that you continue to repeat. I am not saying "everything" is a misunderstanding, I'm being specific.
 
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Yes. I have denied things that you have posted. You said that card check will cause members to lose control of their unions. I have said that this is false. This is a misunderstanding on your part. Your posting compared a secret ballot election monitored by the NLRB to the Iranian presidential elections. I said this is a bogus comparison because the Iranian presidential elections were won through fraud. These are clear misunderstandings that you continue to repeat. I am not saying "everything" is a misunderstanding, I'm being specific.

I HIGH-LIGHTED Card Check would've castrated the Right of Privacy in Voting for Union Members. If that isn't "losing control", what is?:lol:

I'm being "Specific". :) Take care.
 
After the GM debacle,,,you'd think the Unions would "wise up".:lol:

Big Hollywood Blog Archive How to Kill a Union in Three Easy Steps


1) Take away the right to anonymous ballots in voting for leadership.

2) Consistently vote in left wing leadership that supports only left wing political candidates who vote for “tax and spend” policies that destroy the very business we are all in.

3) Take away a major benefit that most non-union members would join the union for in the first place: health care.

Alright even more specific. Look at reason 1) that you posted here. Card check does not change the procedures of leadership selection in a union. So 1) is premised on a misunderstanding or a falsehood.

More generally a member's "control of a union" seems more appropriately defined as control over the governance of the union not the procedure for joining it. Again card check does not change the procedures to govern a union.

Is there something I'm missing?
 
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Alright even more specific. Look at reason 1) that you posted here. Card check does not change the procedures of leadership selection in a union. So 1) is premised on a misunderstanding or a falsehood.

It tried to take the Right of the Voters Privacy...
Which you've pointedly ignored the whole time.


More generally a member's "control of a union" seems more
appropriately defined as control over the governance of the union not the procedure for joining it. Again card check does not change the procedures to govern a union.

Unions suck up to the Dems for the most part. Tell me the "Benefits' you've gained under B.O.:lol:

Is there something I'm missing?
I don't have the time, nor patience to answer you. Look for yourself for a change.
 
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I don't have the time, nor patience to answer you. Look for yourself for a change.

It doesn't take a lot of time your patience. Just admit that reason 1) in your first posting is factually incorrect. This is easy. Alternatively, admit that you want to continue to argue in bad faith. Everyone makes mistakes. However, we can at least be honest about them.
 
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Agreed...How many times have we all witnessed Construction Crews with 1 guy working,,,and 5 others sitting around doing nothing? :roll: The same goes at Ship Yards, the Docks and Wharehouse Facilites I visit on the job...1-2 working, the rest at a complete stand still.:roll:

I have been on navy ships in 2 ship yards, one in Bremerton, Washington, and one in Yokosuka, Japan.
In Bremerton, forget about getting things done without following the rules. I watched a welder sit on his butt because an electrician had to reroute some extension cords, and the electrician wouldn't be available for a while.
In Japan, I needed some knee knocker remote radio console brackets moved so that they wouldn't hurt anyone who sat at the radio operators console. They had been there since WWII, and needed to be put on top of the console, not under it. One carton of cigarettes got the deed done, cost me about $2....:)
 
Treat the working man with respect.
Down thru the annuls of history, the working man was treated one step above that of a slave, if that.
So, now we have our unions.
Enjoy:rofl
I doubt if the wealthy conservatives will ever get the message.
 
I have been on navy ships in 2 ship yards, one in Bremerton, Washington, and one in Yokosuka, Japan.
In Bremerton, forget about getting things done without following the rules. I watched a welder sit on his butt because an electrician had to reroute some extension cords, and the electrician wouldn't be available for a while.
In Japan, I needed some knee knocker remote radio console brackets moved so that they wouldn't hurt anyone who sat at the radio operators console. They had been there since WWII, and needed to be put on top of the console, not under it. One carton of cigarettes got the deed done, cost me about $2....:)

Unions are like almost anything else, some good, some bad, most somewhere in the middle. Are there union shops where things are abused? Of course there are, but there are also union shops where union and management work together as much as possible.

I think of unions as a kind of necessary evil. I think without unions, or the threat of unionization, wages would stagnate for the foreseeable future, while prices will not stagnate. I also think that without unions or the threat of unions that workers would be treated alot less decently, and would be viewed as more of a disposable commodity.

A necessary evil is, however, still an evil, and unions do tend to bread corruption, and union bosses who forget they work for the workers. Once unions realize they can force concessions, they do tend to try for too much, to the detriment of the employer.

With all that in mind, I think the status quo is probably the best policy right now. Let unions exist, but don't make the more powerful, and don't expedite the unionization process. Sometimes when there is no good solution, the lesser evil is the best you can get.
 
Unions are like almost anything else, some good, some bad, most somewhere in the middle. Are there union shops where things are abused? Of course there are, but there are also union shops where union and management work together as much as possible.

I think of unions as a kind of necessary evil. I think without unions, or the threat of unionization, wages would stagnate for the foreseeable future, while prices will not stagnate. I also think that without unions or the threat of unions that workers would be treated alot less decently, and would be viewed as more of a disposable commodity.

A necessary evil is, however, still an evil, and unions do tend to bread corruption, and union bosses who forget they work for the workers. Once unions realize they can force concessions, they do tend to try for too much, to the detriment of the employer.

With all that in mind, I think the status quo is probably the best policy right now. Let unions exist, but don't make the more powerful, and don't expedite the unionization process. Sometimes when there is no good solution, the lesser evil is the best you can get.

I've never seen a union shop where the, "that's not my job", mentality wasn't abused.

One night, I was making a delivery to a valve company. I had a pallet that weighed about 50 pounds, bumped the dock and sat for two hours while a dozen different forklifts went back-n-forth through the loading dock, or sat idle doing nothing. I'd already checked in with S&R, signed in, delivery was inspected; just waiting for a forklift to take it off my trailer. I finally said the hell with it, grabbed one end and drug it onto the loading dock and OMG! the slobberin' and knashing of the teeth by those unions hands.

The biggest deadbeats I ever seen on a job site have been union hands.
 
I've never seen a union shop where the, "that's not my job", mentality wasn't abused.

One night, I was making a delivery to a valve company. I had a pallet that weighed about 50 pounds, bumped the dock and sat for two hours while a dozen different forklifts went back-n-forth through the loading dock, or sat idle doing nothing. I'd already checked in with S&R, signed in, delivery was inspected; just waiting for a forklift to take it off my trailer. I finally said the hell with it, grabbed one end and drug it onto the loading dock and OMG! the slobberin' and knashing of the teeth by those unions hands.

The biggest deadbeats I ever seen on a job site have been union hands.

I guess I don't see how this refutes anything redress stated. Were you trying to disagree with Redress?
 
I've never seen a union shop where the, "that's not my job", mentality wasn't abused.

One night, I was making a delivery to a valve company. I had a pallet that weighed about 50 pounds, bumped the dock and sat for two hours while a dozen different forklifts went back-n-forth through the loading dock, or sat idle doing nothing. I'd already checked in with S&R, signed in, delivery was inspected; just waiting for a forklift to take it off my trailer. I finally said the hell with it, grabbed one end and drug it onto the loading dock and OMG! the slobberin' and knashing of the teeth by those unions hands.

The biggest deadbeats I ever seen on a job site have been union hands.

Yep,,,the same thing happens to me. I'll step aboard a DDG, look around for the gear I'm supposed to install, and see it still on the Pier. 2 days AFTER Delivery. I go down to the L.C.U. (Local Control Unit) and unpack it myself. All the while with a dead beat "Dock Worker" yelling that I'm "NOT ALLOWED" to touch it.:lol:

I give him specific instructions on where he can put his "Rules",,,sideways.:lol:
And complete MY JOB.

Take care.
 
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Yep,,,the same thing happens to me. I'll step aboard a DDG, look around for the gear I'm supposed to install, and see it still on the Pier. 2 days AFTER Delivery. I go down to the L.C.U. (Local Control Unit) and unpack it myself. All the while with a dead beat "Dock Worker" yelling that I'm "NOT ALLOWED" to touch it.:lol:

I give him specific instructions on where he can put his "Rules",,,sideways.:lol:
And complete MY JOB.

Take care.

Sorry Realist but on this topic you have shown yourself willing to maintain notions that are demonstratively false. I think you have lost a lot of credibility on this thread as a result.
 
Sorry Realist but on this topic you have shown yourself willing to maintain notions that are demonstratively false. I think you have lost a lot of credibility on this thread as a result.


I have seen a similar attitude among some non-union workers, to be honest about it.
Several guys in the last place I worked had bad attitudes. They should have been fired for their lack of effort, but were protected by management who didn't want it known that they were too lazy to do what was needed to fire the guys. But, management rotates, and new management did finally make the guys do their jobs. It was years, tho, not just months, before something was done.
 
I've never seen a union shop where the, "that's not my job", mentality wasn't abused.

One night, I was making a delivery to a valve company. I had a pallet that weighed about 50 pounds, bumped the dock and sat for two hours while a dozen different forklifts went back-n-forth through the loading dock, or sat idle doing nothing. I'd already checked in with S&R, signed in, delivery was inspected; just waiting for a forklift to take it off my trailer. I finally said the hell with it, grabbed one end and drug it onto the loading dock and OMG! the slobberin' and knashing of the teeth by those unions hands.

The biggest deadbeats I ever seen on a job site have been union hands.

And you have proven time and again to be a hyper-partisan demagogue who will see what he wants to see. There are good unions shops out there. It's not the institution, it's certain members of the institution.

To put it another way, I have worked at a couple places that treated employees like crap. This does not mean every place is like that, nor does that mean that every place should have unions to deal with places like this.
 
And you have proven time and again to be a hyper-partisan demagogue who will see what he wants to see. There are good unions shops out there. It's not the institution, it's certain members of the institution.

To put it another way, I have worked at a couple places that treated employees like crap. This does not mean every place is like that, nor does that mean that every place should have unions to deal with places like this.

Unions encourage employers to follow labor laws.
 
Unions encourage employers to follow labor laws.

History indicates that unions and organized crime were once hand in glove companions, and may still be to some extent.
Too much power and money, and too little sense of responsibility makes a bad combination.
 
History indicates that unions and organized crime were once hand in glove companions, and may still be to some extent.
Too much power and money, and too little sense of responsibility makes a bad combination.


Yes, but where would we be without labor laws and unions? Working at Walmart where the employer values profits over workers.
 
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UtahBill said:
I have seen a similar attitude among some non-union workers, to be honest about it.
That's why it's futile to argue 'I saw so-and-so do this or that'.

You generally don't know why a person is doing what they are doing on just a general observance. Eyewitnesses usually make very unreliable witnesses.

Bill, on your story about security going union. We had just the opposite happen at the facility I retired from. Security went from union to salaried. The company promised them the world if only they would become enlightened and for a while they did treat them like humans...LOL j/k. Afterward they began to add more responsibility/job requirements without an increase in compensation. Then they begin to compensate their overtime like supervision i.e. you had to work 48 hours before you started to get paid and then only at straight time. They lost their seniority and the suck-ups got the better jobs and work hours. The ones that were there before the switch regretted their decision, the guys that were hired afterward, well they just didn't know any better.

Just saying, things look different, depending on which side of the ball you're on.

(just for the record I've been on both and see the pros and cons on both sides)
 
Yes, but where would we be without labor laws and unions? Working at Walmart where the employer values profits over workers.

No doubt, without unions we would still be a nation of serfs working for the super greedy robber barons, but the pendulum swings both ways.
Corruption is rampant in the corporate world and the unions, but right now it seems the corporate world is far worse than unions ever were. This is odd to me, considering that we like to call ourselves a christian nation.
As for valuing workers, that is a corporate culture problem, and WalMart is hardly the only company to throw rocks at. One thing I will give credit to WalMart for, they hire people that other companies wont' even talk to....
Last job I held was as bad as I want to ever see again...image was everything to our manager, and you only had to look good to be successful. Actual productivity was secondary. So we had a lot of fluff and only a bit of substance. Eventually, that corrects itself. That manager was eased out into early retirement. But last I heard, the new guy is only a bit better at equitable compensation for services rendered...
My father was pro-union as a machinist, but when he got to be shop steward, he got his eyes opened a bit. After a stint of that, he never spoke pro about unions again. I was never union, but can see the value of a good one. Problem is, nobody gets much recognition for the many good things they do, but they get a lof of blame for the slightest bad they do....
That is human nature.
 
Sorry Realist but on this topic you have shown yourself willing to maintain notions that are demonstratively false. I think you have lost a lot of credibility on this thread as a result.

I'm sure it's just a "misunderstanding", on your part.:lol:
 
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