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Thread: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

  1. #21
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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    IF you do away with "tax and spend", you will end up with "borrow and spend", the republican way of financing government....
    It would appear to be the Obama way as well unless I am imagining that $1.7 trillion deficit for this year.

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe1991 View Post
    Anybody wonder why Americas best years were the ones with the highest union memberships?

    Strong union membership makes for a strong middle class.
    Correlation does not equal causation. This isn't the 1950s anymore. The world has changed and stronger unions would destroy this nation's economy in today's world.

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by angrycarpenter View Post
    please educate what the free choice act is about before you argue against it.


    Employee Free Choice Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    It is entirely concerned with the procedure for establishing union representation in a particular workplace and outlawing certain practices collectively called union busting. The proposed legislation enjoys wide union member support. I would really like to see where you got 70% from. As for the government dictating terms.



    How is this dictating terms? If contract negotiations go on for more than 90 days it simply because management is stalling, leaving the workers stuck without a contract and still subject to retaliation without representation. Under the current system if negotiations can be stalled for a year the union loses the presumption of majority status basically breaking the attempt to unionize. 44% of attempts at unionization are defeated by this stall tactic. This is the only Government involvement in contract negotiations stated in the bill and it only covers the first attempt to unionize.
    I've looked at it from quite a few Sources...
    I didn't come up with the 70% quote,,,but I'd like to think that at least that many people in Unions would stick up for their Right to Privacy.

    Try this:Binding arbitration is still bad for workers - Steve Forbes - POLITICO.com


    Some senators recently decided to drop a controversial provision from the Employee “Forced” Choice Act that would have prevented workers from being able to vote via secret ballot in union elections.


    That was a wise decision. After all, that provision — “card check” — is an undemocratic way for labor unions to gain new members and would put employees at risk of harassment and intimidation.
    Last edited by Realist1; 08-15-09 at 06:31 PM.

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don't Tase Me Bro View Post
    The world has changed and stronger unions would destroy this nation's economy in today's world.
    Yeah, I've heard that GOP lie repeated a thousand different ways,
    I prefer Henry Fords line about paying his workers enough to be able to buy his cars.

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe1991 View Post
    Yeah, I've heard that GOP lie repeated a thousand different ways,
    I prefer Henry Fords line about paying his workers enough to be able to buy his cars.

    Tell me,,,why would anyone worthwhile join a Union? You end up PAYING someone else for your Right to Work...

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    I've looked at it from quite a few Sources...
    I didn't come up with the 70% quote,,,but I'd like to think that at least that many people in Unions would stick up for their Right to Privacy.

    Try this:Binding arbitration is still bad for workers - Steve Forbes - POLITICO.com


    Some senators recently decided to drop a controversial provision from the Employee “Forced” Choice Act that would have prevented workers from being able to vote via secret ballot in union elections.


    That was a wise decision. After all, that provision — “card check” — is an undemocratic way for labor unions to gain new members and would put employees at risk of harassment and intimidation.



    Read more: Binding arbitration is still bad for workers - Steve Forbes - POLITICO.com

    Like the author of the other blog Forbes seems to mischaracterize EFCA. There is a mandate for binding arbitration after 90 days. However, this does not mean that workers would not have a say in the terms of their contract. Again bargaining committees and the procedures of contract ratification are determined by union constitutions. Nearly all unions require a majority support for a contract to be ratified and bargaining committees are usually comprised of workers as well as union reps. In many cases, union reps could not just bargain in bad faith without worker support because workers are on bargaining committees. However, if Forbes is really concerned about guaranteeing a workers a say in their contract, then he would be advocating for government regulation about how workers chose to associate.

    Does anyone really believe that Forbes cares about workplace democracy? If Forbes is just concerned about giving workers a voice, then why doesn't he advocate for government arbitration that is subjected to secret ballot vote by the workers? The man argues against binding arbitration because it weakens the business owners bargaining positions. He argues against a "short" election period because longer election periods give employers a better chance at dissuading workers from joining a union.

  7. #27
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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    How are unions a monopoly?
    They monopolize the sale of labor in a given market.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe1991 View Post
    I prefer Henry Fords line about paying his workers enough to be able to buy his cars.
    Ford wasn't unionized at the time.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe1991 View Post
    Yeah, I've heard that GOP lie repeated a thousand different ways,
    I prefer Henry Fords line about paying his workers enough to be able to buy his cars.
    Henry Ford didn't need a union to do that.

    Secondly, what I said is hardly a lie and easily understood by anyone with knowledge in economics. The unions were strongest in the 1950s and that was because America had virtually no foreign competition in most industries. We were about the only industrialized nation that didn't have the crap blown out of it during WWII so while Europe was piecing itself back to together we had a virtual global monopoly on exports. That is why we could pay workers so well in those days for manual labor and have 80% income rates and still be chugging right along as a nation. Our recession began in the 1960s right as the Europeans were coming back online and producing again. From then it was all down hill for American manufacturing: textiles, automobiles, steel makers, you name it. The final blow was NAFTA and as much as technology has improved our lives, it's also a cause for the decimation of unions. Today China and India can produce products for a fraction of what it would cost here in this country and that's why so much of that has left our shores. Unionizing further would only speed the process.

    The numbers don't lie. Ideology, however, blinds.

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    They monopolize the sale of labor in a given market.
    I don't think this is exactly correct. I think that you are saying a monopolies are bad because they can act as price setters against a group of agents who are price takers. This causes the price setter to cut back production to an inefficient degree so that it can artificially raise prices. In this setting the price-takers have no bargaining power because they compete with each other. Correct me if I am mischaracterizing your position.

    However, if this is the case then labor unions are not properly defined as price setters, because business has bargaining power. Businesses are not simply price takers because they can refuse a contract, force a strike and even bring in temporary workers.

    Unions are ultimately bargaining over the division of profit in a company. Thus, they are bargaining with a single agent who has a strict reservation value of what they can concede. This is different than bargaining with numerous agents who all have different reservation values. Since unions are only dealing with one agent, they do not have the same incentives to make supply scarce in order to increase they price. They simply name the price that they want.

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