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Thread: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I have seen a similar attitude among some non-union workers, to be honest about it.
    Several guys in the last place I worked had bad attitudes. They should have been fired for their lack of effort, but were protected by management who didn't want it known that they were too lazy to do what was needed to fire the guys. But, management rotates, and new management did finally make the guys do their jobs. It was years, tho, not just months, before something was done.
    My personal attitude was/is Given to me freely, by Union Personel. I've rarely met anyone associated with a Union that didn't disappoint me. In action,(lack of), word, or deed. I'm sure there's exceptions. You sound like you'd be worth knowing U/B.

    Take care.

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    I'm sure it's just a "misunderstanding", on your part.
    Yes the evasive tactics can go on forever and I realize I cannot compel you to admit that you are wrong. I'm of the opinion that a failure to acknowledge mistakes when they are apparent, reduces one's credibility. For me credibility and a general reputation for honest engagement is a lot more important than never having to admit that I am wrong. Winning trust from others that I will not simply say, write or post anything in spite of evidence is valuable for me.

    Of course, admitting that I am wrong when the evidence is clear also allows me to learn from others and keep my worldview anchored to empirics. How can I expect to challenge my biases, if I cannot even cede minor points when the evidence is clear? Instead of demonizing others by casting them into stereotypes and concluding that they just don't understand, we do have the opportunity to learn and become more persuasive with a larger group of people.

    But we can agree to disagree on who misunderstood what. The thread is here people can draw their own conclusions.

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimboJ View Post
    Yes the evasive tactics can go on forever and I realize I cannot compel you to admit that you are wrong. I'm of the opinion that a failure to acknowledge mistakes when they are apparent, reduces one's credibility. For me credibility and a general reputation for honest engagement is a lot more important than never having to admit that I am wrong. Winning trust from others that I will not simply say, write or post anything in spite of evidence is valuable for me.

    Of course, admitting that I am wrong when the evidence is clear also allows me to learn from others and keep my worldview anchored to empirics. How can I expect to challenge my biases, if I cannot even cede minor points when the evidence is clear? Instead of demonizing others by casting them into stereotypes and concluding that they just don't understand, we do have the opportunity to learn and become more persuasive with a larger group of people.

    But we can agree to disagree on who misunderstood what. The thread is here people can draw their own conclusions.
    It takes you two full Paragraphs of inane ramblings about me, (and your personal "feelings") to say you disagree with me. Yep,,,the People will draw their own conclusions.

    Good Night.
    Last edited by Realist1; 08-17-09 at 09:45 PM.

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    You've yet NOT to deny anything I've Posted,,,while claiming everything is just a "misunderstanding". As you're doing now. I agree, this engagement has been of low-value. My "Position" hasn't changed, I still think the Govt. and Unions have NO Business in Private Enterprise. You do.

    Read this: Union Scandals - Google Search
    You note in my I did not mention anything about my feelings. More succinct then, I think you are a bit self-righteous and as a result sloppy in your thinking. For example, you allow yourself to state the extreme viewpoint that the govt. has "NO" business in private enterprise. Well I guess that means that police shouldn't protect private property rights and courts shouldn't enforce contracts. Its pretty tough to have market exchange without contract enforcement and property rights protection. Do you really think that govt. has "NO" business in private enterprise?

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimboJ View Post
    You note in my I did not mention anything about my feelings. More succinct then, I think you are a bit self-righteous and as a result sloppy in your thinking. For example, you allow yourself to state the extreme viewpoint that the govt. has "NO" business in private enterprise. Well I guess that means that police shouldn't protect private property rights and courts shouldn't enforce contracts. Its pretty tough to have market exchange without contract enforcement and property rights protection. Do you really think that govt. has "NO" business in private enterprise?
    I "note" I haven't a clue what you mean by "my"...Sloppy Jimbo. The Police aren't a Private Enterprise, are they? The Courts originally were designed to "Follow the Will of the People" in Laws passed "By the People".

    Not "Make Law".... We, the People make the Law.

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    I "note" I haven't a clue what you mean by "my"...Sloppy Jimbo. The Police aren't a Private Enterprise, are they? The Courts originally were designed to "Follow the Will of the People" in Laws passed "By the People".

    Not "Make Law".... We, the People make the Law.

    Yeah I guess thatís right. In your ideal world, the police let private enterprise take care of their own security. Courts donít enforce contracts because the will of the people is that government has NO business in private enterprise. Monopolies certainly arenít regulated and are free to cause as many market inefficiencies as they desire. Hell, lead paint is still allowed and its vendors arenít even compelled to let consumers know about the paintís content. No need for an official currency to have a place in private enterprise. I guess businesses can create their own bartering mechanisms. Perhaps they can trade in gold or just pure goods. At least government wonít be able to print its way out of debt!!! This is quite a compelling vision of a society that youíre advocating. I mean I wouldnít want to live in it, but then again, I foolishly think government can play a useful role in private enterprise.

    On the bright side, I guess pirates could make a comeback, since they would be a private enterprise and the government would have no business telling them what they can and cannot do. This would probably add a lot of adventure to New Orleans and Miami. Plus militias could become professional private security forces with absolutely no regulation. Tons of fun to be had in a never-never land comprised of fearful armed adults. On second thought maybe I am game.

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Let's debunk a right wing talking point.

    Unions are bad for us.


    Highest Standard of Living Countries as measured by the Human Developement Index 2006.

    1 Iceland 0.968 ▲ +0.001
    2 Norway 0.968 ▲ +0.001
    3 Canada 0.967 ▲ +0.002
    4 Australia 0.965 ▲ +0.002
    5 Ireland 0.960 ▲ +0.002
    6 Netherlands 0.958 ▲ +0.002
    7 Sweden 0.958 ▲ +0.001
    8 Japan 0.956 ▲ +0.003
    9 Luxembourg 0.956 ▲ +0.002
    10 Switzerland 0.955 ▲ +0.002
    11 France 0.955 ▲ +0.002
    12 Finland 0.954 ▲ +0.004
    13 Denmark 0.952 ▲ +0.003
    14 Austria 0.951 ▲ +0.003
    15 United States 0.950 ▬


    "Icelandic workers are among the most unionized in the world with more than 85% of them belonging to a union. "

    " Norway: Unionization rate 60 %."

    In fact every single country that ranks above the USA has higher union participation rates! Every single one!
    Last edited by dragondad; 08-19-09 at 02:31 AM.

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimboJ View Post
    Yeah I guess thatís right. In your ideal world, the police let private enterprise take care of their own security. Courts donít enforce contracts because the will of the people is that government has NO business in private enterprise. Monopolies certainly arenít regulated and are free to cause as many market inefficiencies as they desire. Hell, lead paint is still allowed and its vendors arenít even compelled to let consumers know about the paintís content. No need for an official currency to have a place in private enterprise. I guess businesses can create their own bartering mechanisms. Perhaps they can trade in gold or just pure goods. At least government wonít be able to print its way out of debt!!! This is quite a compelling vision of a society that youíre advocating. I mean I wouldnít want to live in it, but then again, I foolishly think government can play a useful role in private enterprise.

    On the bright side, I guess pirates could make a comeback, since they would be a private enterprise and the government would have no business telling them what they can and cannot do. This would probably add a lot of adventure to New Orleans and Miami. Plus militias could become professional private security forces with absolutely no regulation. Tons of fun to be had in a never-never land comprised of fearful armed adults. On second thought maybe I am game.
    Do you think you could ramble a bit more coherently in the future? I said:

    Originally Posted by Realist1
    I "note" I haven't a clue what you mean by "my"...Sloppy Jimbo. The Police aren't a Private Enterprise, are they? The Courts originally were designed to "Follow the Will of the People" in Laws passed "By the People".
    Not "Make Law".... We, the People make the Law.


    You then procede to babble on about Pirates, Paint, and Militias...

    Take care.
    Last edited by Realist1; 08-19-09 at 07:16 AM.

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    No point really. For me you cut spending first, then cut taxes once things balance and you get a (real) surplus, but overall, I agree with lower taxes lower spending as an ideal
    Arrest this man, he's posing as a liberal!
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    My personal attitude was/is Given to me freely, by Union Personel. I've rarely met anyone associated with a Union that didn't disappoint me. In action,(lack of), word, or deed. I'm sure there's exceptions. You sound like you'd be worth knowing U/B.

    Take care.
    I have never worked as a union employee, but have worked very closely with them. On a few occasions, I have encouraged/educated union workers as to how badly they are being ripped off. First, they get less pay than comparable non-union workers, and then they get to pay union dues.
    Two of them "crossed over" to the other side....
    As soon as the non-union job came open, they bid it, and got it.
    Really competent workers usually don't need a union.

    But having said that, there are times when management can be so very stupid that they are practically begging for a union to be formed...
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

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