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Thread: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

  1. #131
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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    You've yet NOT to deny anything I've Posted,,,while claiming everything is just a "misunderstanding". As you're doing now. I agree, this engagement has been of low-value. My "Position" hasn't changed, I still think the Govt. and Unions have NO Business in Private Enterprise. You do.

    Read this: Union Scandals - Google Search
    Yes. I have denied things that you have posted. You said that card check will cause members to lose control of their unions. I have said that this is false. This is a misunderstanding on your part. Your posting compared a secret ballot election monitored by the NLRB to the Iranian presidential elections. I said this is a bogus comparison because the Iranian presidential elections were won through fraud. These are clear misunderstandings that you continue to repeat. I am not saying "everything" is a misunderstanding, I'm being specific.
    Last edited by JimboJ; 08-16-09 at 04:24 PM.

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimboJ View Post
    Yes. I have denied things that you have posted. You said that card check will cause members to lose control of their unions. I have said that this is false. This is a misunderstanding on your part. Your posting compared a secret ballot election monitored by the NLRB to the Iranian presidential elections. I said this is a bogus comparison because the Iranian presidential elections were won through fraud. These are clear misunderstandings that you continue to repeat. I am not saying "everything" is a misunderstanding, I'm being specific.
    I HIGH-LIGHTED Card Check would've castrated the Right of Privacy in Voting for Union Members. If that isn't "losing control", what is?

    I'm being "Specific". Take care.

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    After the GM debacle,,,you'd think the Unions would "wise up".

    Big Hollywood Blog Archive How to Kill a Union in Three Easy Steps


    1) Take away the right to anonymous ballots in voting for leadership.

    2) Consistently vote in left wing leadership that supports only left wing political candidates who vote for “tax and spend” policies that destroy the very business we are all in.

    3) Take away a major benefit that most non-union members would join the union for in the first place: health care.
    Alright even more specific. Look at reason 1) that you posted here. Card check does not change the procedures of leadership selection in a union. So 1) is premised on a misunderstanding or a falsehood.

    More generally a member's "control of a union" seems more appropriately defined as control over the governance of the union not the procedure for joining it. Again card check does not change the procedures to govern a union.

    Is there something I'm missing?
    Last edited by JimboJ; 08-16-09 at 05:03 PM.

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimboJ View Post
    Alright even more specific. Look at reason 1) that you posted here. Card check does not change the procedures of leadership selection in a union. So 1) is premised on a misunderstanding or a falsehood.

    It tried to take the Right of the Voters Privacy...
    Which you've pointedly ignored the whole time.


    More generally a member's "control of a union" seems more
    appropriately defined as control over the governance of the union not the procedure for joining it. Again card check does not change the procedures to govern a union.

    Unions suck up to the Dems for the most part. Tell me the "Benefits' you've gained under B.O.

    Is there something I'm missing?
    I don't have the time, nor patience to answer you. Look for yourself for a change.
    Last edited by Realist1; 08-16-09 at 06:19 PM.

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    I don't have the time, nor patience to answer you. Look for yourself for a change.
    It doesn't take a lot of time your patience. Just admit that reason 1) in your first posting is factually incorrect. This is easy. Alternatively, admit that you want to continue to argue in bad faith. Everyone makes mistakes. However, we can at least be honest about them.
    Last edited by JimboJ; 08-16-09 at 06:27 PM.

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    Agreed...How many times have we all witnessed Construction Crews with 1 guy working,,,and 5 others sitting around doing nothing? The same goes at Ship Yards, the Docks and Wharehouse Facilites I visit on the job...1-2 working, the rest at a complete stand still.
    I have been on navy ships in 2 ship yards, one in Bremerton, Washington, and one in Yokosuka, Japan.
    In Bremerton, forget about getting things done without following the rules. I watched a welder sit on his butt because an electrician had to reroute some extension cords, and the electrician wouldn't be available for a while.
    In Japan, I needed some knee knocker remote radio console brackets moved so that they wouldn't hurt anyone who sat at the radio operators console. They had been there since WWII, and needed to be put on top of the console, not under it. One carton of cigarettes got the deed done, cost me about $2....
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Treat the working man with respect.
    Down thru the annuls of history, the working man was treated one step above that of a slave, if that.
    So, now we have our unions.
    Enjoy
    I doubt if the wealthy conservatives will ever get the message.

  8. #138
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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I have been on navy ships in 2 ship yards, one in Bremerton, Washington, and one in Yokosuka, Japan.
    In Bremerton, forget about getting things done without following the rules. I watched a welder sit on his butt because an electrician had to reroute some extension cords, and the electrician wouldn't be available for a while.
    In Japan, I needed some knee knocker remote radio console brackets moved so that they wouldn't hurt anyone who sat at the radio operators console. They had been there since WWII, and needed to be put on top of the console, not under it. One carton of cigarettes got the deed done, cost me about $2....
    Unions are like almost anything else, some good, some bad, most somewhere in the middle. Are there union shops where things are abused? Of course there are, but there are also union shops where union and management work together as much as possible.

    I think of unions as a kind of necessary evil. I think without unions, or the threat of unionization, wages would stagnate for the foreseeable future, while prices will not stagnate. I also think that without unions or the threat of unions that workers would be treated alot less decently, and would be viewed as more of a disposable commodity.

    A necessary evil is, however, still an evil, and unions do tend to bread corruption, and union bosses who forget they work for the workers. Once unions realize they can force concessions, they do tend to try for too much, to the detriment of the employer.

    With all that in mind, I think the status quo is probably the best policy right now. Let unions exist, but don't make the more powerful, and don't expedite the unionization process. Sometimes when there is no good solution, the lesser evil is the best you can get.

  9. #139
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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Unions are like almost anything else, some good, some bad, most somewhere in the middle. Are there union shops where things are abused? Of course there are, but there are also union shops where union and management work together as much as possible.

    I think of unions as a kind of necessary evil. I think without unions, or the threat of unionization, wages would stagnate for the foreseeable future, while prices will not stagnate. I also think that without unions or the threat of unions that workers would be treated alot less decently, and would be viewed as more of a disposable commodity.

    A necessary evil is, however, still an evil, and unions do tend to bread corruption, and union bosses who forget they work for the workers. Once unions realize they can force concessions, they do tend to try for too much, to the detriment of the employer.

    With all that in mind, I think the status quo is probably the best policy right now. Let unions exist, but don't make the more powerful, and don't expedite the unionization process. Sometimes when there is no good solution, the lesser evil is the best you can get.
    I've never seen a union shop where the, "that's not my job", mentality wasn't abused.

    One night, I was making a delivery to a valve company. I had a pallet that weighed about 50 pounds, bumped the dock and sat for two hours while a dozen different forklifts went back-n-forth through the loading dock, or sat idle doing nothing. I'd already checked in with S&R, signed in, delivery was inspected; just waiting for a forklift to take it off my trailer. I finally said the hell with it, grabbed one end and drug it onto the loading dock and OMG! the slobberin' and knashing of the teeth by those unions hands.

    The biggest deadbeats I ever seen on a job site have been union hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  10. #140
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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I've never seen a union shop where the, "that's not my job", mentality wasn't abused.

    One night, I was making a delivery to a valve company. I had a pallet that weighed about 50 pounds, bumped the dock and sat for two hours while a dozen different forklifts went back-n-forth through the loading dock, or sat idle doing nothing. I'd already checked in with S&R, signed in, delivery was inspected; just waiting for a forklift to take it off my trailer. I finally said the hell with it, grabbed one end and drug it onto the loading dock and OMG! the slobberin' and knashing of the teeth by those unions hands.

    The biggest deadbeats I ever seen on a job site have been union hands.
    I guess I don't see how this refutes anything redress stated. Were you trying to disagree with Redress?

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