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Thread: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

  1. #111
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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    Originally Posted by JimboJ
    Again card check does not take away the private voting from union members. Card check would allow non-members the chance to join a union through a majority signing cards. However, leadership elections as well as any other internal decision in unions is determined by the union's constitution. Card check would not change how these decisions are made.

    Really?

    EFCA supporters on Capitol Hill are now contemplating the union bosses’ plan to replace card check with a measure that would enable union elections to be held within five or 10 days of filing a petition with the National Labor Relations Board.


    This would be about as fair as the Iranian presidential election. Quicker elections give union bosses the opportunity to lobby workers — in many cases, without the knowledge of the employer or the majority of employees — while disallowing the small business the opportunity to communicate with its own employees about unionization.


    Quick elections are simply another way for union bosses to force unionization on businesses and gain dues from workers with little regard for how increased costs and burdens will affect an employer’s ability to stay in business.

    I guess I don't see how the text you pasted contains a single fact that I have denied. Just pasting it again won't change this. Note that the elections, which Forbes is discussing are about union recognition. Moreover he is saying that EFCA would not allow card check but would mandate secret ballots. In either case, none of this has to do with the decisions that union members make. It affects how none union members become members. I don't know if I can make this clearer for you.

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    Originally Posted by JimboJ
    Again card check does not take away the private voting from union members. Card check would allow non-members the chance to join a union through a majority signing cards. However, leadership elections as well as any other internal decision in unions is determined by the union's constitution. Card check would not change how these decisions are made.

    Really?

    EFCA supporters on Capitol Hill are now contemplating the union bosses’ plan to replace card check with a measure that would enable union elections to be held within five or 10 days of filing a petition with the National Labor Relations Board.


    This would be about as fair as the Iranian presidential election. Quicker elections give union bosses the opportunity to lobby workers — in many cases, without the knowledge of the employer or the majority of employees — while disallowing the small business the opportunity to communicate with its own employees about unionization.


    Quick elections are simply another way for union bosses to force unionization on businesses and gain dues from workers with little regard for how increased costs and burdens will affect an employer’s ability to stay in business.


    Good Night.
    Sorry I missed the good night. Good night to you as well sir.

  3. #113
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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    This whole argument is based on whether you see a labor union as a good or a bad thing.

    Some of us think a company should see it's employees as limited partners who have every interest in seeing the company succeed and therefore should have a fair share of the success they helped provide. We believe a union serves the purpose of keeping management honest and provides workers with the leverage to get a living wage when the corporate impulse is worry about the stockholders far more than the workers that produced that profit to begin with.

    Some of us believe that the boss is the boss and no one has the right to tell him what to do with his company. Employees are just people who can be replaced if they make trouble. That every measure to increase the profit margin even at the expense of workers is a good thing. Any tactic used to defeat unionization is good and proper. Unions are in it for themselves existing only to extort dues from workers.

    These positions are irreconcilable and there is nothing to be gained from arguing about the free choice act as long as the opposition are against unions period much less making it easier to unionize. But I will say this, If a company were a country, Which of these positions looks like democracy and which one looks like a dictatorship?

  4. #114
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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by angrycarpenter View Post
    This whole argument is based on whether you see a labor union as a good or a bad thing.

    Some of us think a company should see it's employees as limited partners who have every interest in seeing the company succeed and therefore should have a fair share of the success they helped provide. We believe a union serves the purpose of keeping management honest and provides workers with the leverage to get a living wage when the corporate impulse is worry about the stockholders far more than the workers that produced that profit to begin with.

    Some of us believe that the boss is the boss and no one has the right to tell him what to do with his company. Employees are just people who can be replaced if they make trouble. That every measure to increase the profit margin even at the expense of workers is a good thing. Any tactic used to defeat unionization is good and proper. Unions are in it for themselves existing only to extort dues from workers.

    These positions are irreconcilable and there is nothing to be gained from arguing about the free choice act as long as the opposition are against unions period much less making it easier to unionize. But I will say this, If a company were a country, Which of these positions looks like democracy and which one looks like a dictatorship?
    I see Unions as a Bad Thing A/C...Check out Google, type in Union Scandals,,,and 1-2,340,000 Pages pop up to read.


    [ame=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Union+Scandals&aq=f&oq=&aqi=]Union Scandals - Google Search[/ame]

  5. #115
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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don't Tase Me Bro View Post
    It would appear to be the Obama way as well unless I am imagining that $1.7 trillion deficit for this year.
    Agree, seems there is getting to be no real difference between the political parties anymore...
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  6. #116
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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    One easy step in killing a union....
    let one segment of the workforce unionize, and let the rest of the workforce see the results...
    Happened where I last worked...the IBEW kept trying to get the electrical workers at a major utility in AZ, and the employees kept voting no.
    So they tried just the security forces, and won. Security worker's pay immediately got negotiated DOWN, and they lost thier uniform allowance.
    But they did get to pay union dues.
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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    I see Unions as a Bad Thing A/C...Check out Google, type in Union Scandals,,,and 1-2,340,000 Pages pop up to read.


    Union Scandals - Google Search
    I'm still waiting for you to show me a particular fact that I have denied. Failing to do so, just shows that you started this thread with misunderstandings and continue to maintain these misunderstandings even though they have been revealed as such. The bottom-line is that you were mistaken and you refuse to acknowledge your mistake. Instead you defend your mistake you make the same mistake. I would call this dishonesty, unless, of course, you really don't understand the dialogue this far. Either way I am afraid further engagement on this topic is probably of low-value.

    Oh and no, I did not come to this conclusion just because you don't like unions. Note that all I have done is ask you to clarify your position. It would have been easy to admit that you had some misunderstandings about EFCA and still maintain your reasons for opposing unions. In fact I think this would have made your reasons for opposing unions more compelling because at least it would be evidence that you have some intellectual honesty in this position. Now I'm just left to wonder if your entire position on this issue is premised on easily rectified misunderstandings that you refuse to acknowledge.

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You can yammer on about whatever you want; it has nothing to do with anything I said.
    Last time I looked you weren't the only poster on the forum, lol.

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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by angrycarpenter View Post
    What?? I was commenting on the futility of arguing with people who believe their opinions to be the ultimate unalterable truth of reality and see an opposing view as an assault on their character and something to be fought till the last breath without budging an inch. You know a fanatic, sorry if you took it personally I was speaking generally.
    Well stated.

  10. #120
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    Re: How to Kill a Union,,,in 3 Easy Steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by windovervocalcords View Post
    Last time I looked you weren't the only poster on the forum, lol.
    No, but you brought all this up by specifically responding to me.

    So, yourself.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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