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Thread: What'll We Do About the Town Hall Screamers? Part 2: The More Things Change...:

  1. #71
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    Re: What'll We Do About the Town Hall Screamers? Part 2: The More Things Change...:

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I'm pretty sure that the difference for him is that he has complete choice over the matter.
    No one has "complete choice" unless they are in the 'self-pay' column and even then, they had better be well -heeled. Let us say, he cannot pay for his own care. We, his fellow citizens, can 'choose' to let him die. Right?

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    Re: What'll We Do About the Town Hall Screamers? Part 2: The More Things Change...:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    No one has "complete choice" unless they are in the 'self-pay' column and even then, they had better be well -heeled. Let us say, he cannot pay for his own care. We, his fellow citizens, can 'choose' to let him die. Right?
    He has complete choice as to whether or not he wants to enter a risk pool. That's a fact, like it or not.

    And yes, fellow citizens can make that choice.
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  3. #73
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    Re: What'll We Do About the Town Hall Screamers? Part 2: The More Things Change...:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    No one has "complete choice" unless they are in the 'self-pay' column and even then, they had better be well -heeled. Let us say, he cannot pay for his own care. We, his fellow citizens, can 'choose' to let him die. Right?
    In many cases, I can agree with that. I know quite a few people who have filed bankruptcy, and all but one of them didn't have health insurance, by choice. One guy quit a job with benefits for him and his family to take one without benefits, one where he didn't have to work the evening shift so much.
    He could have purchased a catastrophic health care policyfor a reasonable amount, but instead he chose to have the internet, cable TV, a collection of DVD's, a cell phone for him, another for his wife, and another for the oldest child. Ever see a grown man addicted to texting?
    He lost his new job when his employer filed bankruptcy. I wonder who is paying for all his toys now.
    Last edited by UtahBill; 08-16-09 at 12:36 AM.
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    Re: What'll We Do About the Town Hall Screamers? Part 2: The More Things Change...:

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Good grief.



    How many times are people going to say that the only reason anyone could possibly be opposed to this bill is because they're stupid or evil?

    Really. Enough. It's ridiculous, unthinking, and frankly, disgusting.
    Well, kind of not too difficult to draw that conclusion considering the intellectual emptiness of most of the arguments. Factor the craven hypocrisy of people screaming about Socialism, when they themselves demand no cuts be made to their Medicare (you know that Socialist program for 65 and over). Or should we consider the depraved dishonesty from the likes of Grassley, Palin, and Newt and their Death Panels (you know, the ones they were formally in favor of, back when they were correctly called end of life counseling). Consider the so called deficit hawks who cry about the cost, while dishonestly ignoring what the impact of rising healthcare costs and Medicare growth.

    Stupidity is arguing against paying for the healthcare of others...while we are already paying! Stupidity is thinking we can stay the course, and still be competitive in the global economy with a 17% GDP expenditure on healthcare. Stupidity is thinking we have such a great healthcare system, when every study shows we do not. Stupidity is using intellectually dishonest claims about our cancer survival rates, while completely ignoring the ironic "Socialist" investment government makes in cancer research. Stupidity is the sheer number of so called anti-Socialist Republicans who want to defeat "Socialist" healthcare, when they themselves do not have the honesty to support ending all our other wonderful Socialist programs. Stupidity is thinking we have a great system, when we are paying thousands of dollars more per person; that translates into higher out of pocket costs, lower wages, and increasing need for businesses to no longer offer healthcare. Stupidity is when NGO healthcare groups have to set up operations in U.S. cities, the same work they do in THIRD WORLD NATIONS (Yes folks, we join Haiti, Afghanistan, and others).

    So no, it may not be the only reason that people are opposing HCR is because they are stupid and evil, but god damn if honest opposition is damn hard to find. The reality than any child could see is that opposition so far is primarily for partisan and special interests. Boo hoo the insurance companies might actually have to get a little more honest, I really could not give a bleep. They are one industry that seeks to drag down our whole economy. Where have the honest and thoughtful opponents been? Could it be that the Republicans just want a Waterloo moment, could it be that they care more about winning elections than the good of the nation? Well, I think the past 8 years have said enough.

    In 2003 the Republicans in charge of both House and Senate, as well as the Presidency pushed out a Medicare bill without one single thought to how it was to be paid for. This bill alone will end up costing about close to the exact same as the current HCR proposals. Think about it, why was there no Republicans crying then for deficits and costs and so on? Where are these champions of deficits crying about a war in Iraq that will cost us in the end $3-5 trillion more than what was sold to us the public?

    Most importantly, think for a second, what does it say about the opponents argument when they have to resort to the most depraved of lies and deceit. The sheer hypocrisy of Newt, Palin, Grassley, and others is despicable. To whip up anger and fear over these Death Panels, when these same despicable humans supported them.

  5. #75
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    Re: What'll We Do About the Town Hall Screamers? Part 2: The More Things Change...:

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    a very christian attitude, to be sure....
    I think the right is afraid that healthcare reform will work, and the left will get all the credit, and then the right has one more hurdle to overcome in getting back into power....
    Yeah, you go tit. We think helping people is horrible.


    Nothing to do with spending 1 Trillion dollars... and when was the last time a massive government entitlement program stayed on budget? To remove peoples rights on medical care.

    Nah, it's all about power, you SOOO tagged us.
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  6. #76
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    Re: What'll We Do About the Town Hall Screamers? Part 2: The More Things Change...:

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post
    Well, kind of not too difficult to draw that conclusion considering the intellectual emptiness of most of the arguments. Factor the craven hypocrisy of people screaming about Socialism, when they themselves demand no cuts be made to their Medicare (you know that Socialist program for 65 and over). Or should we consider the depraved dishonesty from the likes of Grassley, Palin, and Newt and their Death Panels (you know, the ones they were formally in favor of, back when they were correctly called end of life counseling). Consider the so called deficit hawks who cry about the cost, while dishonestly ignoring what the impact of rising healthcare costs and Medicare growth.

    Stupidity is arguing against paying for the healthcare of others...while we are already paying! Stupidity is thinking we can stay the course, and still be competitive in the global economy with a 17% GDP expenditure on healthcare. Stupidity is thinking we have such a great healthcare system, when every study shows we do not. Stupidity is using intellectually dishonest claims about our cancer survival rates, while completely ignoring the ironic "Socialist" investment government makes in cancer research. Stupidity is the sheer number of so called anti-Socialist Republicans who want to defeat "Socialist" healthcare, when they themselves do not have the honesty to support ending all our other wonderful Socialist programs. Stupidity is thinking we have a great system, when we are paying thousands of dollars more per person; that translates into higher out of pocket costs, lower wages, and increasing need for businesses to no longer offer healthcare. Stupidity is when NGO healthcare groups have to set up operations in U.S. cities, the same work they do in THIRD WORLD NATIONS (Yes folks, we join Haiti, Afghanistan, and others).

    So no, it may not be the only reason that people are opposing HCR is because they are stupid and evil, but god damn if honest opposition is damn hard to find. The reality than any child could see is that opposition so far is primarily for partisan and special interests. Boo hoo the insurance companies might actually have to get a little more honest, I really could not give a bleep. They are one industry that seeks to drag down our whole economy. Where have the honest and thoughtful opponents been? Could it be that the Republicans just want a Waterloo moment, could it be that they care more about winning elections than the good of the nation? Well, I think the past 8 years have said enough.

    In 2003 the Republicans in charge of both House and Senate, as well as the Presidency pushed out a Medicare bill without one single thought to how it was to be paid for. This bill alone will end up costing about close to the exact same as the current HCR proposals. Think about it, why was there no Republicans crying then for deficits and costs and so on? Where are these champions of deficits crying about a war in Iraq that will cost us in the end $3-5 trillion more than what was sold to us the public?

    Most importantly, think for a second, what does it say about the opponents argument when they have to resort to the most depraved of lies and deceit. The sheer hypocrisy of Newt, Palin, Grassley, and others is despicable. To whip up anger and fear over these Death Panels, when these same despicable humans supported them.
    Good post, Sam....
    Any republican politician claiming to be a conservative spender is a bigger joker than Mr. V....
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  7. #77
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    Re: What'll We Do About the Town Hall Screamers? Part 2: The More Things Change...:

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Good post, Sam....
    Any republican politician claiming to be a conservative spender is a bigger joker than Mr. V....
    Two Questions for you Utah Bill, Sam_w, or any of you other government take over medicine folks...

    This "Medical Reform" is gonna run 1,000,000,000,000.00 dollars... projected.

    How can we afford that now?

    How can we afford the certain cost over runs of the program later?
    Last edited by Renae; 08-16-09 at 10:34 AM.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  8. #78
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    Re: What'll We Do About the Town Hall Screamers? Part 2: The More Things Change...:

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Two Questions for you Utah Bill,

    This "Medical Reform" is gonna run 1,000,000,000,000.00 dollars... projected.

    How can we afford that now?

    How can we afford the certain cost over runs of the program later?
    Nobody knows the true cost of this....just like nobody knew the true cost of the Bush wars.
    How can the GOP be FOR SPENDING on their programs, but AGAINST SPENDING on DEM programs?

    My hope is that no matter the final result on coverage, people get charged a copay that discourages visits for trivial reasons. I saw that in the Navy, moms showing up with their kids for every scraped knee or runny nose.
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    Re: What'll We Do About the Town Hall Screamers? Part 2: The More Things Change...:

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Nobody knows the true cost of this....just like nobody knew the true cost of the Bush wars.
    How can the GOP be FOR SPENDING on their programs, but AGAINST SPENDING on DEM programs?

    My hope is that no matter the final result on coverage, people get charged a copay that discourages visits for trivial reasons. I saw that in the Navy, moms showing up with their kids for every scraped knee or runny nose.
    Yeah Bill, I saw that too, my Ex used to run herself, or the kids to the clinic if they so much as sneezed.

    But that's not the point, the projected cost of this program RIGHT NOW is 1,000,000,000,000.00 dollars. Look at cash for clunkers, less then a month and it was 200% over budget!

    The argument of "Well the GOP was for spending for this, so they can't be against spending for that" is ludicrous.

    I'll turn it around then, the Dems were against spending for the war, cause it cost too much, how can they be FOR spending for this?? The Hypocrisy!!!!

    One other side question... the reason we need "reform" is because of those damned dirty insurance companies right? So why are we being told we'll be able to keep our coverage if this passes as is by the same carriers with no changes??


    That, makes no sense mon.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  10. #80
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    Re: What'll We Do About the Town Hall Screamers? Part 2: The More Things Change...:

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Yeah Bill, I saw that too, my Ex used to run herself, or the kids to the clinic if they so much as sneezed.

    But that's not the point, the projected cost of this program RIGHT NOW is 1,000,000,000,000.00 dollars. Look at cash for clunkers, less then a month and it was 200% over budget!

    The argument of "Well the GOP was for spending for this, so they can't be against spending for that" is ludicrous.

    I'll turn it around then, the Dems were against spending for the war, cause it cost too much, how can they be FOR spending for this?? The Hypocrisy!!!!

    One other side question... the reason we need "reform" is because of those damned dirty insurance companies right? So why are we being told we'll be able to keep our coverage if this passes as is by the same carriers with no changes??


    That, makes no sense mon.
    The insurance companies have already stated that they will insure people with pre-existing conditions as long as we are all required to have insurance. That is the only way they can afford to insure the already sick.
    The way I see it, we are required to have car insurance and if the govt can mandate car insurance to drive, they should be able to mandate health insurance.
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