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Thread: What'll We Do About the Town Hall Screamers? Part 2: The More Things Change...:

  1. #101
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    Re: What'll We Do About the Town Hall Screamers? Part 2: The More Things Change...:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    The U.S. gives drug companies lengthy patent protection and then allows them to charge whatever they want to U.S. citizens. Canada, on the other hand, bargains for the favorable pricing.
    Canada is able to say "if you want to sell it here, this is what you're going to charge."

    Drug companies can then charge more in, say, the US to make up for the difference.

    If Canada had a free market, then it wouldn't cost so much here.

    You see, everything's connected. It's all a big web.
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    Re: What'll We Do About the Town Hall Screamers? Part 2: The More Things Change...:

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Canada is able to say "if you want to sell it here, this is what you're going to charge."

    Drug companies can then charge more in, say, the US to make up for the difference.

    If Canada had a free market, then it wouldn't cost so much here.

    You see, everything's connected. It's all a big web.
    Damn Canadians. I knew there was a reason I didn't like them
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  3. #103
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    Re: What'll We Do About the Town Hall Screamers? Part 2: The More Things Change...:

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Canada is able to say "if you want to sell it here, this is what you're going to charge."

    Drug companies can then charge more in, say, the US to make up for the difference.

    If Canada had a free market, then it wouldn't cost so much here.

    You see, everything's connected. It's all a big web.
    O.I.C., you just support corporate welfare. Or welfare for Canadians. What is "free" about the market in drugs? The taxpayer provides much basic research. Drug companies are given a patent. What is "free-market" about a patent? Who decides how long a patent should be? The "free market"?

    The patented drug that my son takes for $175. (Advair) probably costs a couple bucks to make. They managed to patent the plastic discus that measures the dose. That is the extent of the innovation. I am sure they make a substantial profit at the $30. Canadian price.

  4. #104
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    Re: What'll We Do About the Town Hall Screamers? Part 2: The More Things Change...:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    The taxpayer provides much basic research.
    what percentage of drugs is this true for?

    Drug companies are given a patent. What is "free-market" about a patent?
    so free that its in the constitution.

    Who decides how long a patent should be? The "free market"?
    The gov't. Not a company.

    The patented drug that my son takes for $175. (Advair) probably costs a couple bucks to make.
    how are you so sure of that? A pizza costs less than a $1 from major chains but the box, oven, labor, advertising, new product development, accounting, managing, PR, and all other things add to the price. Product price is rarely determined by the cost of materials alone.

    They managed to patent the plastic discus that measures the dose. That is the extent of the innovation.
    then there's no reason someone else can't make a generic equivalent.

    I am sure they make a substantial profit at the $30. Canadian price.
    and you are so sure based on what? Intuition and personal bias?
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  5. #105
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    Re: What'll We Do About the Town Hall Screamers? Part 2: The More Things Change...:

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw
    Why should they not be discussed in the open by the public?
    Didn't say they shouldn't be discussed openly, they just don't get the same attention as blatant lies do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw
    The problem is when you pretend -- or seek to give the impression -- that they're the only ones which exist.
    No pretension or impression is unduly given. When misrepresentation or downright lies are produced they are naturally going to get the full brunt of rebuttal.

    For example, 'Death Panels' are going to get much more attention than, 'we don't like how the voluntary counseling provision is worded, let's work to restate it'. Obviously there is some small matter in that language that's bothering someone, because many of the very same people that are vehemently opposed to it have approved and even sponsored similar legislation in the past.

    Or government run health care, complete with horror stories (equally horrific stories of our system can easily be produced) from Canada and the UK. No such proposals in any bills that I've seen. No proposals that the government should run doctors, clinics or hospitals. Bogyman.
    “We just simply don’t know how to govern” - Rep. Steve Womack (R-AR) a member of the House Budget Committee

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    Re: What'll We Do About the Town Hall Screamers? Part 2: The More Things Change...:

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    what percentage of drugs is this true for?

    so free that its in the constitution.

    The gov't. Not a company.
    It is a monopoly anyway you cut it. The fact that it is legal does not alter the fact. The gov't decides the length of the monopoly so they can decide to make its duration shorter. Or bargain for better prices as they do with the V.A.and as every other Western country does.
    how are you so sure of that? A pizza costs less than a $1 from major chains but the box, oven, labor, advertising, new product development, accounting, managing, PR, and all other things add to the price. Product price is rarely determined by the cost of materials alone.


    then there's no reason someone else can't make a generic equivalent.
    That is right-As soon as the patent expires

    and you are so sure based on what? Intuition and personal bias?

    Educated guess. Advair is designed to prevent asthma. As such, it delivers a tiny amount of steroid and albuterol to the lungs to prevent reactive inflammation. Those two things are not terribly expensive in much larger quantities. I give my dog vast amounts of steroid pills just so she can continue to walk.

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    Re: What'll We Do About the Town Hall Screamers? Part 2: The More Things Change...:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    O.I.C., you just support corporate welfare. Or welfare for Canadians.
    Where do you get that?


    What is "free" about the market in drugs? The taxpayer provides much basic research. Drug companies are given a patent. What is "free-market" about a patent? Who decides how long a patent should be? The "free market"?
    Congress decides, under direct explicit authority granted by the Constitution.


    The patented drug that my son takes for $175. (Advair) probably costs a couple bucks to make.
    If true, all the research and development that went into it cost how much?


    They managed to patent the plastic discus that measures the dose. That is the extent of the innovation. I am sure they make a substantial profit at the $30. Canadian price.
    You may be sure, but that doesn't mean they actually do.

    Besides, I'm just telling you -- it all has an effect. If you think it doesn't, you're kidding yourself.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  8. #108
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    Re: What'll We Do About the Town Hall Screamers? Part 2: The More Things Change...:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    It is a monopoly anyway you cut it.
    yes, that's what a patent is, a monopoly on a very specific invention for a limited time. Are you another person who is afraid of the word monopoly such that anytime its used it must be a bad thing?

    The fact that it is legal does not alter the fact.
    I fail to see the fact except that you want a drug for a price you think is fair, which is based on nothing but your intuition and feelings. I'm sure people who need bone marrow transplants wish it was cheaper too.

    The gov't decides the length of the monopoly so they can decide to make its duration shorter. Or bargain for better prices as they do with the V.A.and as every other Western country does.
    and I'm all for punishing excessive price gouging. But I'm also a staunch supporter of business rights and capitalism.

    That is right-As soon as the patent expires
    no, someone just needs to develop a different delivery system than a circular disk or a different way to receive the meds. Patents aren't wide ranging. They are very specific. People often overstate the latitude a patent gives the owner.

    It also may not be profitable enough for competitors and investors to bother.

    Educated guess.
    what education do you have or what research have you done to support your claim?
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  9. #109
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    Re: What'll We Do About the Town Hall Screamers? Part 2: The More Things Change...:

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post

    Congress decides, under direct explicit authority granted by the Constitution.
    That does not make it a "free market"!
    You said:
    "If Canada had a free market, then it wouldn't cost so much here."

    But the cost of drugs has nothing to do with a 'free market'! For good or ill, it is completely contrived. Government/ university funded programs do most of the basic research and big pharma concentrates on the stuff that makes money- you know, erectile dysfunction etc. Government decides how many years to bestow the monopoly. GOVERNMENT not markets. It has nothing to do with competition or consumer choice. There is no free market

    If it turns out that eating 6 ounces of broccoli a day is the cure for most cancers, do you think that Big Pharma is going to do research, study it, announce it, market it?

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    Re: What'll We Do About the Town Hall Screamers? Part 2: The More Things Change...:

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post

    It also may not be profitable enough for competitors and investors to bother.
    The competition already has a product sold elsewhere for a fraction the price

    what education do you have or what research have you done to support your claim?
    Do your own research! Or don't if you don't care. Sheesh, is it really this hard to penetrate? Does Glaxo Smith Kline sell to the rest of the world at a loss? Advair is just one drug. Are you really so sanguine about being soaked by the drug companies OR subsidizing the rest of the world's drug costs ( choose your interpretation- either way it is a bad deal for Americans)

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