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Angry Man Tells Specter: God Will Judge You

Up until this post I had great respect for you and actaully thought that you wanted to conduct an intelligent debate but that Hitler and Nazi remark just derailed that. You need to go and study some independent history ofd how the NAZI'S came to power, their hijacking of the worker/sociliast party opration, their tie in with the German banks and industrialists, etc

Unfortunately desenters such as those of us who thought that The Shrub was right on target with going into Afghanistan but wrong a hell about Iraq were called “Un-American”. Many of us who felt that way are Vietnam Vets. So I guess we were “Un-American” when we went to Vietnam right !?!?!?!?

Hitler did not national banks or industries unless they were Jewish or the owners/ceos' did not cooperate. You really need to read becasue NATIONAL SOCIALISM may be naional but it was hardly socilaist just a the Est Greman Democratic Republic was not democratic nor was it a republic.

I do not see this debate going any further until you learn something about Hitler and NAZISM.

ps My parents survived forced labor camps in Germany and I heard all about what they went through and read tons of material in more than just English so believe me HITLER was hardly a "PROGRESSIVE.

Dude,
Read your signature. That is what I was responding to. My mother grew up in Austria at the end of WWII, her father was a German soldier, he was SS and fought on the Russian front.
The National Socialist Party (NAZI) were Fascists (corporatists) and Socialists. What were their political goals outside of genocide? They were national health care, environmentalism, animal rights and other LEFTIST POLICIES. When they came to power the communists (people who were farther left) decided that the country was moving in the direction they wanted and said thing like first Brown then Red.
Yes Hitler WAS PROGRESSIVE. He was a child of the progressive movement. Look at what he read, studied, who he admired and what his philosophy was. Compare that to the progressive movement.
The truth hurts when it’s a 2X4 to the head.:doh
 
So you are making my point that we already have oppression. That does not mean we should tolerate it any further. It means we need to get rid of allot of the laws that are oppressive.

no, no, and no I never made any such point !!
 
no, no, and no I never made any such point !!

You may need to see this video.

Good video to think about (Source Libertarian Party)
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muHg86Mys7I"]YouTube - The Philosophy of Liberty[/ame]

Enjoy and learn:mrgreen:
 
Dude,
Read your signature. That is what I was responding to. My mother grew up in Austria at the end of WWII, her father was a German soldier, he was SS and fought on the Russian front.
The National Socialist Party (NAZI) were Fascists (corporatists) and Socialists. What were their political goals outside of genocide? They were national health care, environmentalism, animal rights and other LEFTIST POLICIES. When they came to power the communists (people who were farther left) decided that the country was moving in the direction they wanted and said thing like first Brown then Red.
Yes Hitler WAS PROGRESSIVE. He was a child of the progressive movement. Look at what he read, studied, who he admired and what his philosophy was. Compare that to the progressive movement.
The truth hurts when it’s a 2X4 to the head.:doh

my signiture is toungue in cheeck and Hitler has been dead for 64 years now so I figured people would realize that I am using symbolism.

I understand my history and I am not fooled by the fact that NAZI'S have the name Socialist in their party.

Where you make the fatal flaw in thinking is that you assume that if an ideology uses some one aspect of a policy from another ideology then you assume that the two ideologies are the same. Corporatism has been is the baby of conservatives, fascists, progressives, reactionaries, socialists, theologians, and probably vegans but that does not make any of all of those philosophies the same.

As I pointed out earlier do not be fooled by a name such as socilaist since the German Democratic Republic was neither democratic nor was is a republic.
 
my signiture is toungue in cheeck and Hitler has been dead for 64 years now so I figured people would realize that I am using symbolism.

I understand my history and I am not fooled by the fact that NAZI'S have the name Socialist in their party.

Where you make the fatal flaw in thinking is that you assume that if an ideology uses some one aspect of a policy from another ideology then you assume that the two ideologies are the same. Corporatism has been is the baby of conservatives, fascists, progressives, reactionaries, socialists, theologians, and probably vegans but that does not make any of all of those philosophies the same.

As I pointed out earlier do not be fooled by a name such as socilaist since the German Democratic Republic was neither democratic nor was is a republic.

Say what you like. Believe what you want.
The fact is the only diffence between modern porgressives and the 1930 German progressives is the Germans were Social Darwinists (kill the unwanted).
Nobody needs that. Oh but wait there is health care run by Big Gov. Other than the military and raising taxes what have the done successfully?
 
Dude,
Read your signature. That is what I was responding to. My mother grew up in Austria at the end of WWII, her father was a German soldier, he was SS and fought on the Russian front.
The National Socialist Party (NAZI) were Fascists (corporatists) and Socialists. What were their political goals outside of genocide? They were national health care, environmentalism, animal rights and other LEFTIST POLICIES. When they came to power the communists (people who were farther left) decided that the country was moving in the direction they wanted and said thing like first Brown then Red.
Yes Hitler WAS PROGRESSIVE. He was a child of the progressive movement. Look at what he read, studied, who he admired and what his philosophy was. Compare that to the progressive movement.
The truth hurts when it’s a 2X4 to the head.:doh

You need to be carefull with how you apply the lable progressive. In general terms progressive means that you believe in change or progress over hold the old way or conserve it. There was the "international progressive movement" which wanted change and oh yes Hitler wanted change he wanted to change Germany from a republic to an autocracy so that is realy progressive !!! sic !! In the U.S. progressives advocated the abolition of slavery, right to vote for women and civil rights reforms !! Let's see how is that similar to Nazi's ?? Oh, it's not !!!!

Wait I see that Nazi has an 'i', and so does the term progessive. Wow they are the same, both terms have an 'i' . I do not intend to be demeaning but just a point that you are taking one policy or a name from one philosophy and match it with another and call them the same.
 
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You need to be carefull with how you apply the lable progressive. In general terms progressive means that you believe in change or progress over hold the old way or conserve it. There was the "international progressive movement" which wanted change and oh yes Hitler wanted change he wanted to change Germany from a republic to an autocracy so that is realy progressive !!! sic !! In the U.S. progressives advocated the abolition of slavery, right to vote for women and civil rights reforms !! Let's see how is that similar to Nazi's ?? Oh, it's not !!!!

Wait I see that Nazi has an 'i', and so does the term progessive. Wow they are the same, both terms have an 'i' . I do not intend to be demeaning but just a point that you are taking one policy or a name from one philosophy and match it with another and call them the same.

I will agree to disagree with you on the NAZI stuff.

Did you watch the Libertarian video?
 
Dude,
Read your signature. That is what I was responding to. My mother grew up in Austria at the end of WWII, her father was a German soldier, he was SS and fought on the Russian front.
The National Socialist Party (NAZI) were Fascists (corporatists) and Socialists. What were their political goals outside of genocide? They were national health care, environmentalism, animal rights and other LEFTIST POLICIES. When they came to power the communists (people who were farther left) decided that the country was moving in the direction they wanted and said thing like first Brown then Red.
Yes Hitler WAS PROGRESSIVE. He was a child of the progressive movement. Look at what he read, studied, who he admired and what his philosophy was. Compare that to the progressive movement.
The truth hurts when it’s a 2X4 to the head.:doh

The fact that the Nazis were for national healthcare, animal rights, and environmental protections was not what made them evil.

It was their extreme nationalism, racism, and xenophobia, and persecution and later wholesale genocide of jews, minorities, and homosexuals that made them evil.

Nationalism is definitely a trait more associated with the right than the left. Xenophobia is definitely a trait more associated with the right than the left.
Militarism is definitely a trait more associated with the right than the left.
Intolerance of other races and homosexuals is definitely a trait more associated with the right than the left.

Both sides need to own their douche bags. The left largely owns the Maoists, and the right largely owns the Nazis.
 
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The fact that the Nazis were for national healthcare, animal rights, and environmental protections was not what made them evil.

It was their extreme nationalism, racism, and xenophobia, and persecution and later wholesale genocide of jews, minorities, and homosexuals that made them evil.

Nationalism is definitely a trait more associated with the right than the left. Xenophobia is definitely a trait more associated with the right than the left.
Militarism is definitely a trait more associated with the right than the left.
Intolerance of other races and homosexuals is definitely a trait more associated with the right than the left.

Both sides need to own their douche bags. The left largely owns the Maoists, and the right largely owns the Nazis.

What ever your reality is that is fine with me. I don't mind.

I will agree to disagree with you on the NAZI stuff.

Did you watch the Libertarian video?
Did you listen to the Reagan audio?
 
What ever your reality is that is fine with me. I don't mind.

I will agree to disagree with you on the NAZI stuff.

Did you watch the Libertarian video?
Did you listen to the Reagan audio?

I don't need to watch a video or listen to "Reagan audio", I have done thing called "reading" over the course of my life and being something of a history buff, I have done a great deal of that "reading" about Nazi Germany, various Communist regimes and so on.

First off, Libertarian ideology has as much in common with the left as it does the right. Secondly, once again, history has not judged Nazism evil because it promoted environmental protections early on and a national healthcare system. If that made an ideology evil, then the entire industrialized world outside of the United States would be evil.

Nazism is evil because its an ideology that promoted militarism, racism, and genocide. Your logic is just plain flawed. To say that Obama wants Universal Healthcare, the Nazis promoted Universal Heathcare in Germany, thus Obama is like a National Socialist. That is the same as saying, Reagan loved his two dogs Lucky and Rex, Adolph Hitler loved his dogs, thus Reagan was like a National Socialist.
 
I don't need to watch a video or listen to "Reagan audio", I have done thing called "reading" over the course of my life and being something of a history buff, I have done a great deal of that "reading" about Nazi Germany, various Communist regimes and so on.

First off, Libertarian ideology has as much in common with the left as it does the right. Secondly, once again, history has not judged Nazism evil because it promoted environmental protections early on and a national healthcare system. If that made an ideology evil, then the entire industrialized world outside of the United States would be evil.

Nazism is evil because its an ideology that promoted militarism, racism, and genocide. Your logic is just plain flawed. To say that Obama wants Universal Healthcare, the Nazis promoted Universal Heathcare in Germany, thus Obama is like a National Socialist. That is the same as saying, Reagan loved his two dogs Lucky and Rex, Adolph Hitler loved his dogs, thus Reagan was like a National Socialist.

Dude,
you are WAY TO SERIOUS with all this politcal stuff. I get upset & pasionate some times too but I've been trying to give you an out on the NAZI crap.

If you prefer to read over a 10 minute audio & a 10 minute video then have you read "Liberal Fascism" by Jonah Goldberg or "the Party of Death" by Ramesh Ponnuru or "The 5000 Year Leap" by W. Cleon Skousen or "The Federalist Papers"?

Reagan makes some valid points and so does the libertarian video. Also the video posted by "The silenced majority" was also very good (you may not like it).

Reagan makes several points about "Socialized Medicine" that you MAY find interesting.

The Libertarian video is just a lesson on you own you and nobody else. More good points. Yes I know the Libertarians have some liberal ideas, some I can agree with.

The final video is just what it says but is very good and yet easy to understand even for me so you should be able to make it through in 10 minutes.
 
No it's not. Your's is. Your completely misinterpreting the Constituion.

The preamble does not confer any authority upon the government. Here, you can read about it:

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preamble_to_the_United_States_Constitution]Preamble to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
Dude,
you are WAY TO SERIOUS with all this politcal stuff. I get upset & pasionate some times too but I've been trying to give you an out on the NAZI crap.

If you prefer to read over a 10 minute audio & a 10 minute video then have you read "Liberal Fascism" by Jonah Goldberg

No I haven't. Is Jonah Goldberg a historian? No, he is a right wing political hack that is a contributer to the National Review.

or "the Party of Death" by Ramesh Ponnuru or "The 5000 Year Leap" by W. Cleon Skousen or

Possibly if you read actual textbook history rather than the opinions and one sided portrayals of it?

"The Federalist Papers"?

They predate Nazism by well over 100 years so I am not sure your point with them although everyone ought to be familiar with them. Just the same, The National Review is not a history book. Its columnists are trying to propagandize just like columnists with a left wing rag like the Nation are.

Reagan makes some valid points and so does the libertarian video. Also the video posted by "The silenced majority" was also very good (you may not like it).

Reagan makes several points about "Socialized Medicine" that you MAY find interesting.

The Libertarian video is just a lesson on you own you and nobody else. More good points. Yes I know the Libertarians have some liberal ideas, some I can agree with.

The final video is just what it says but is very good and yet easy to understand even for me so you should be able to make it through in 10 minutes.

First off, I am well aware that self ownership is the foundation of liberty. I have been arguing that on here for years. Neither the right nor the left fully recognizes the principle of self ownership.

Secondly, Reagan made his socialist arguments about Medicare back in the early 60s. He pretty much ended up being wrong, but in one respect he is right, Medicare is socialism just like Public Education is or Unemployment. That doesn't make it evil though.

Finally, I have seen the video Silenced Majority posted a year ago, its a basic civics lesson and does not disprove either side, but rather its a critque of extremism whether on the right or the left.

Don't outsource your thinking to columnists and pundits that decide to write books, just read history for yourself.
 
The fact that the Nazis were for national healthcare, animal rights, and environmental protections was not what made them evil.

It was their extreme nationalism, racism, and xenophobia, and persecution and later wholesale genocide of jews, minorities, and homosexuals that made them evil.

Nationalism is definitely a trait more associated with the right than the left. Xenophobia is definitely a trait more associated with the right than the left.
Militarism is definitely a trait more associated with the right than the left.
Intolerance of other races and homosexuals is definitely a trait more associated with the right than the left.

Both sides need to own their douche bags. The left largely owns the Maoists, and the right largely owns the Nazis.

So, Nazis are cool, as long as they're not racist? How scary is that?!?
 
So, Nazis are cool, as long as they're not racist? How scary is that?!?

Do you even attempt to read people's posts?
 
No I haven't. Is Jonah Goldberg a historian? No, he is a right wing political hack that is a contributer to the National Review.



Possibly if you read actual textbook history rather than the opinions and one sided portrayals of it?



They predate Nazism by well over 100 years so I am not sure your point with them although everyone ought to be familiar with them. Just the same, The National Review is not a history book. Its columnists are trying to propagandize just like columnists with a left wing rag like the Nation are.



First off, I am well aware that self ownership is the foundation of liberty. I have been arguing that on here for years. Neither the right nor the left fully recognizes the principle of self ownership.

Secondly, Reagan made his socialist arguments about Medicare back in the early 60s. He pretty much ended up being wrong, but in one respect he is right, Medicare is socialism just like Public Education is or Unemployment. That doesn't make it evil though.

Finally, I have seen the video Silenced Majority posted a year ago, its a basic civics lesson and does not disprove either side, but rather its a critque of extremism whether on the right or the left.

Don't outsource your thinking to columnists and pundits that decide to write books, just read history for yourself.

Then what historian has pure motives?
History has been rewritten to prove one point or another (mostly to the left). Some historians have had political motives (even in text books) and have bastardized our history. We can all chose the history that makes us feel good or proves our point. On the other hand, history could then be discounted and ignored as spin and you have wasted your time reading.
Again, the fact remains our government, as designed by our Constitution, has no authority to force anything on us. That is tyranny.
Socialism is group think and oppression in ALL FORMS. So absolutely socialism is bad in all forms and should be restricted to a bare minimum at all times.
Government is not a charity and should not be used by the people running it to fund their pet projects. That is what got us to where we are.
 
It's easier just to call them nazi's.

I don't think it matters much nobody know who they are any more anyway. They are just another form of name calling. This post has gotten WAY off track.
 
my signiture is toungue in cheeck and Hitler has been dead for 64 years now so I figured people would realize that I am using symbolism.


Godwins Law epic consistant FAIL

I understand my history and I am not fooled by the fact that NAZI'S have the name Socialist in their party.

So the National Socialists did not start out as a left wing workers party that was indeed socialistic in its nature?


Where you make the fatal flaw in thinking is that you assume that if an ideology uses some one aspect of a policy from another ideology then you assume that the two ideologies are the same. Corporatism has been is the baby of conservatives, fascists, progressives, reactionaries, socialists, theologians, and probably vegans but that does not make any of all of those philosophies the same.


It still makes nazi references stupid.


As I pointed out earlier do not be fooled by a name such as socilaist since the German Democratic Republic was neither democratic nor was is a republic.


:lol:
 
I will agree to disagree with you on the NAZI stuff.

Did you watch the Libertarian video?

I will tonight. PC took a dive last night and I had to reload my Microsoft programs. Just finished that up. I was very sad to hear about Bob Novak's death, even though it was expected. I always had all sorts of respect for him so I had to post on that thread before coming here. He was a true class act.
 
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You may need to see this video.

Good video to think about (Source Libertarian Party)
YouTube - The Philosophy of Liberty

Enjoy and learn:mrgreen:

Interesting packaging but really nothing new. I have read libertarian literature since high school when we had a real liberariun come and address our Political Science Club.

PS SINCE I reelosded my PC software I was able to lauch it today THANKS
 
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