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Thread: Angry Man Tells Specter: God Will Judge You

  1. #121
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    Re: Angry Man Tells Specter: God Will Judge You

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    Any one of us can take certain articles ( bill of rights included ) and and make an arguement for or against healtcare reform.

    I beleive that I have read that Reagan piece before or at least major excerpts from it. In fact Reagan was the one who coined the terme "socialized medicine". Do you know why Reagan was so hot against Medicare? One good theeory is that his father-inlaw highly influenced him and/or he was going in-law-dad a favor. You see daddy-in-law was an MD and at that time docs were dead set against Medicare. Of back them docs pretty charged whatver the hell they wanted and us poor insurance companies paid it or the people without insurance paid it.

    Medicare has it's flaws but it has provided an opportnity for a lot of our eleders to have lived a bit longer.

    You say " They want to force you to buy something you may not want (Individual rights)
    " Well the states do that already even though the states want states rights yet don't the staes make to carry liability( Property/BI) insurance for the right to own/operate a motor vehicle ? Don't states make companies carry Workers Comp insurance to compensate injured workers? States even set the Comp schedules that us poor insurance companies must pay out. yet that all is called for the public good or for the good of the public. The same can be said of local taxes that go mostly for edication. If you do not believe in universal education you may try to claim that local txes are "illigitimate" because they go for free education for people you may not like or maybe ou like them but feel that you do not want o pay for their kid's education.

    You say "The possibility to take your property (money) to give to someone else (Individual rights)" Well if you are talking about taxes the Constitution gives Congress that right.

    You say "They will have to mandate laws to the states on how to prosecute & most likely regulate the industry(States rights)". Well maybe but us ppoor insurance companies are aleady regulated by 50 staes, one district, and some territories. Yet medicare does have compensation schedule so my guess is that yes there will be Federals reqs. If it's a Fedreal program yes it will have Federal regs. Well if you are an absolute states rightist I can see where you feel that way. Well you know we are a modern, large, industrial nation now and are not 13 self contained former colonies anymore.

    You say "Fine you for not obeying an illegitimate law (Individual rights)" Wel that depends on which laws you consider illegitimate. People who are pot heads, or crack heads, oxycondon, or heroine addicts may consider drug laws as illegitimate. Some legal drug manufacturers may consider the laws enforced by the FDA as illligitimate. Dirt bags and even honest conscientious objectors considered draft laws of the selctive service as illegitimate law.

    A major part of what we consider as legal or illegal, legitimate or illigitimate, is governed by our own belief system.
    This is the motto of liberalism!!! No one else believes this.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  2. #122
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    Re: Angry Man Tells Specter: God Will Judge You

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    This is the motto of liberalism!!! No one else believes this.
    so you don't have your own beliefs ? Your "beliefs" were given to you by someone else ? Someone else tells you what to think. Ok, if that works for you fine but many of us can and do enjoy thinking for ourselves and we practice that. I do not call it liberalaism but if you want to go ahead.

    PS Does anyone else out there think like this poster "American" and likes others to think for them or are you like me and like to think for yourself ?
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Angry Man Tells Specter: God Will Judge You

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    This is the motto of liberalism!!! No one else believes this.
    youi don't understand what the term " what we consider" means do you ?
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Angry Man Tells Specter: God Will Judge You

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I hate to sound like a broken record, but it is a pet peave...please read the Breaking News rules:
    And now you know why we made the Hall Monitor group

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    Re: Angry Man Tells Specter: God Will Judge You

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    Any one of us can take certain articles ( bill of rights included ) and and make an arguement for or against healtcare reform.

    I beleive that I have read that Reagan piece before or at least major excerpts from it. In fact Reagan was the one who coined the terme "socialized medicine". Do you know why Reagan was so hot against Medicare? One good theeory is that his father-inlaw highly influenced him and/or he was going in-law-dad a favor. You see daddy-in-law was an MD and at that time docs were dead set against Medicare. Of back them docs pretty charged whatver the hell they wanted and us poor insurance companies paid it or the people without insurance paid it.

    Medicare has it's flaws but it has provided an opportnity for a lot of our eleders to have lived a bit longer.

    You say " They want to force you to buy something you may not want (Individual rights)
    " Well the states do that already even though the states want states rights yet don't the staes make to carry liability( Property/BI) insurance for the right to own/operate a motor vehicle ? Don't states make companies carry Workers Comp insurance to compensate injured workers? States even set the Comp schedules that us poor insurance companies must pay out. yet that all is called for the public good or for the good of the public. The same can be said of local taxes that go mostly for edication. If you do not believe in universal education you may try to claim that local txes are "illigitimate" because they go for free education for people you may not like or maybe ou like them but feel that you do not want o pay for their kid's education.

    You say "The possibility to take your property (money) to give to someone else (Individual rights)" Well if you are talking about taxes the Constitution gives Congress that right.

    You say "They will have to mandate laws to the states on how to prosecute & most likely regulate the industry(States rights)". Well maybe but us ppoor insurance companies are aleady regulated by 50 staes, one district, and some territories. Yet medicare does have compensation schedule so my guess is that yes there will be Federals reqs. If it's a Fedreal program yes it will have Federal regs. Well if you are an absolute states rightist I can see where you feel that way. Well you know we are a modern, large, industrial nation now and are not 13 self contained former colonies anymore.

    You say "Fine you for not obeying an illegitimate law (Individual rights)" Wel that depends on which laws you consider illegitimate. People who are pot heads, or crack heads, oxycondon, or heroine addicts may consider drug laws as illegitimate. Some legal drug manufacturers may consider the laws enforced by the FDA as illligitimate. Dirt bags and even honest conscientious objectors considered draft laws of the selctive service as illegitimate law.

    A major part of what we consider as legal or illegal, legitimate or illigitimate, is governed by our own belief system.
    So you are making my point that we already have oppression. That does not mean we should tolerate it any further. It means we need to get rid of allot of the laws that are oppressive.

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    Re: Angry Man Tells Specter: God Will Judge You

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    Up until this post I had great respect for you and actaully thought that you wanted to conduct an intelligent debate but that Hitler and Nazi remark just derailed that. You need to go and study some independent history ofd how the NAZI'S came to power, their hijacking of the worker/sociliast party opration, their tie in with the German banks and industrialists, etc

    Unfortunately desenters such as those of us who thought that The Shrub was right on target with going into Afghanistan but wrong a hell about Iraq were called “Un-American”. Many of us who felt that way are Vietnam Vets. So I guess we were “Un-American” when we went to Vietnam right !?!?!?!?

    Hitler did not national banks or industries unless they were Jewish or the owners/ceos' did not cooperate. You really need to read becasue NATIONAL SOCIALISM may be naional but it was hardly socilaist just a the Est Greman Democratic Republic was not democratic nor was it a republic.

    I do not see this debate going any further until you learn something about Hitler and NAZISM.

    ps My parents survived forced labor camps in Germany and I heard all about what they went through and read tons of material in more than just English so believe me HITLER was hardly a "PROGRESSIVE.
    Dude,
    Read your signature. That is what I was responding to. My mother grew up in Austria at the end of WWII, her father was a German soldier, he was SS and fought on the Russian front.
    The National Socialist Party (NAZI) were Fascists (corporatists) and Socialists. What were their political goals outside of genocide? They were national health care, environmentalism, animal rights and other LEFTIST POLICIES. When they came to power the communists (people who were farther left) decided that the country was moving in the direction they wanted and said thing like first Brown then Red.
    Yes Hitler WAS PROGRESSIVE. He was a child of the progressive movement. Look at what he read, studied, who he admired and what his philosophy was. Compare that to the progressive movement.
    The truth hurts when it’s a 2X4 to the head.

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    Re: Angry Man Tells Specter: God Will Judge You

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunor View Post
    So you are making my point that we already have oppression. That does not mean we should tolerate it any further. It means we need to get rid of allot of the laws that are oppressive.
    no, no, and no I never made any such point !!
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Angry Man Tells Specter: God Will Judge You

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    no, no, and no I never made any such point !!
    You may need to see this video.

    Good video to think about (Source Libertarian Party)
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muHg86Mys7I"]YouTube - The Philosophy of Liberty[/ame]

    Enjoy and learn

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    Re: Angry Man Tells Specter: God Will Judge You

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunor View Post
    Dude,
    Read your signature. That is what I was responding to. My mother grew up in Austria at the end of WWII, her father was a German soldier, he was SS and fought on the Russian front.
    The National Socialist Party (NAZI) were Fascists (corporatists) and Socialists. What were their political goals outside of genocide? They were national health care, environmentalism, animal rights and other LEFTIST POLICIES. When they came to power the communists (people who were farther left) decided that the country was moving in the direction they wanted and said thing like first Brown then Red.
    Yes Hitler WAS PROGRESSIVE. He was a child of the progressive movement. Look at what he read, studied, who he admired and what his philosophy was. Compare that to the progressive movement.
    The truth hurts when it’s a 2X4 to the head.
    my signiture is toungue in cheeck and Hitler has been dead for 64 years now so I figured people would realize that I am using symbolism.

    I understand my history and I am not fooled by the fact that NAZI'S have the name Socialist in their party.

    Where you make the fatal flaw in thinking is that you assume that if an ideology uses some one aspect of a policy from another ideology then you assume that the two ideologies are the same. Corporatism has been is the baby of conservatives, fascists, progressives, reactionaries, socialists, theologians, and probably vegans but that does not make any of all of those philosophies the same.

    As I pointed out earlier do not be fooled by a name such as socilaist since the German Democratic Republic was neither democratic nor was is a republic.
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Angry Man Tells Specter: God Will Judge You

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    my signiture is toungue in cheeck and Hitler has been dead for 64 years now so I figured people would realize that I am using symbolism.

    I understand my history and I am not fooled by the fact that NAZI'S have the name Socialist in their party.

    Where you make the fatal flaw in thinking is that you assume that if an ideology uses some one aspect of a policy from another ideology then you assume that the two ideologies are the same. Corporatism has been is the baby of conservatives, fascists, progressives, reactionaries, socialists, theologians, and probably vegans but that does not make any of all of those philosophies the same.

    As I pointed out earlier do not be fooled by a name such as socilaist since the German Democratic Republic was neither democratic nor was is a republic.
    Say what you like. Believe what you want.
    The fact is the only diffence between modern porgressives and the 1930 German progressives is the Germans were Social Darwinists (kill the unwanted).
    Nobody needs that. Oh but wait there is health care run by Big Gov. Other than the military and raising taxes what have the done successfully?

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