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Thread: Angry Man Tells Specter: God Will Judge You

  1. #101
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    re: Angry Man Tells Specter: God Will Judge You

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Government owning controlling interest in and having the last say in the daily operations of a company is national socialism. Hate to break it to you.
    Kid, at this point you are just embarrassing yourself. Just read what hazlnut wrote.

    If all else fails, ram into that thick skull this very simple little fact:

    In February there was real talk of nationalizing banks, coming from Republicans even. If you truly did know anything then you would understand the significance of this. Ask yourself, what banks are now nationalized? Isn't the outrage that we have done bailouts instead?

    You do not know what "national socialism" is, you are merely being a repetitive mouth piece. Try thinking for yourself, try educating yourself outside of talk radio morons.

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    re: Angry Man Tells Specter: God Will Judge You

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    See Article XII of The Bill Of Rights. (Those are the first 12 Amendments to the Constitution)
    Ghee really !!! That where the founding fathers hid those things !! Who would have thunked that !!
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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    re: Angry Man Tells Specter: God Will Judge You

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post
    Kid, at this point you are just embarrassing yourself. Just read what hazlnut wrote.

    If all else fails, ram into that thick skull this very simple little fact:

    In February there was real talk of nationalizing banks, coming from Republicans even. If you truly did know anything then you would understand the significance of this. Ask yourself, what banks are now nationalized? Isn't the outrage that we have done bailouts instead?

    You do not know what "national socialism" is, you are merely being a repetitive mouth piece. Try thinking for yourself, try educating yourself outside of talk radio morons.
    So, what are you saying? We have, "semi", private market system in this country?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    re: Angry Man Tells Specter: God Will Judge You

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    Show where it says Congress, or the POTUS can have a referendum on anything... here's the text, Artical I, section 8:

    XII amendment:

    See how that works?
    There is nothing in the Constitution ( including a scan of the Bill of Rights ) that prohibts Congress from holding a referendum.
    Last edited by F107HyperSabr; 08-13-09 at 09:36 PM.
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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    re: Angry Man Tells Specter: God Will Judge You

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    You seem to think that if it's not specifically prohibited by the Constitution, it's ok. If you read the constitution you will find that it's exactly opposite of that faulty thinking. Read it and learn.

    The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net
    You are in the land of the great interpretations. Look there is nothing in the Constituion prohibiting the death penalty. Some people, albiet foolish people have interpreted the ban on cruel and unusual punishment as prohibiting the death penalty. Those poor people are dead wrong as is my opinion that so are you in thinking that rererendi are prohibited.
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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    re: Angry Man Tells Specter: God Will Judge You

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    By 'power grab', do you mean the democratic national elections? Because, if I'm not mistaken, they happen every two years.

    You and vicchio with your silly conspiracy theories. You realize this reads like a bad James Bond plot. "Submit to their will"? Invasion of the Pinko Body Snatchers??


    And, just for laughs...

    Pray tell, which industry has been permanently nationalized since Obama's been in office?

    I mean, when you say 'next industry', I'd love to know which ones you think have already been taken over by the government.
    You gave away the big dark secret that there are NO industries that have been nationalized. You are trying to subvert a corp belief of an unstable fringe of people-persons. Shame on you taking heir little conspiracy theories away from them.
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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    re: Angry Man Tells Specter: God Will Judge You

    Has anyone seen or heard of Lady Katie today ? Was she the guest of honor on any talkie newsie shows ? Has she showed up for any more townhalls and read some more ?

    Anyway at least Lady Katie is a Nice Lady and not a phoney baloney like the Joe Plumber Crack. I think Lady Katie is wrong as the day is long but I think that she really believe what she read even if she does not understand half the words or the concepts.
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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    re: Angry Man Tells Specter: God Will Judge You

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    Has anyone seen or heard of Lady Katie today ? Was she the guest of honor on any talkie newsie shows ? Has she showed up for any more townhalls and read some more ?

    Anyway at least Lady Katie is a Nice Lady and not a phoney baloney like the Joe Plumber Crack. I think Lady Katie is wrong as the day is long but I think that she really believe what she read even if she does not understand half the words or the concepts.
    She is a soccer mom who watched half a Glenn Beck show and ran over to see her congressman mad as heck and not going take no for an answer.

    Spector, who has more personal experience with the health care system than Katie knows, he sized her up and took mercy on her. For him, it would have been like arguing with first-grader. He nodded his sympathy, but where do you even start to answer a question like that.

    How do you convince someone like her that no one has taken her country away. A President ran on a platform that called for an expansion/modification of the federal government in several specifics areas and he won. He's got 4 years to make it work.

    She's like a puppy dog growling at a cat poster. How cute, she thinks it's real.

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    Talking re: Angry Man Tells Specter: God Will Judge You

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    It's not about getting nasty -- but when someone says something like her 'dismantling of the country' statement -- I want to know what she means. The same questions asked by MSNBC (and only them so far) came to mind. WTF are you talking about, lady?
    I believe that we are abandoning our founding principles. The US Constitution is in danger of being made irrelevant by the 2 parties.
    If you agree that the US Constitution is the frame work all laws must fit within and our government has not stayed within that framework then we have violated our founding principles or in other words “dismantling the country”
    I am not a fan or regular watcher of MSNBC, but CNN and FOX have both been giving air time to these average people with opinions on the health care bill. The majority of these opinions are based on gross misinformation. How does that help the debate? How does get other people better informed about the bill's pros and cons?
    I was at the Lebanon, PA meeting and people read directly from the bill and asked questions based on that. How is that misinformed? Some questions based on frustration have been asked that is true but they are trying to express that frustration and these in these forums are to phrased as a question so the politicians can pontificate & try to look good.
    Real experts on health care policy and economics are given a measly half-hour segment on Sunday morning or on C-Span. They have raised legitimate issues with the bill and are able to intelligently discuss and communicate the complicated formulas and policies. I watch these shows. Mrs. Abrams doesn't know they exist.
    How so? She was completely unable to articulate her position with any real examples. She revealed herself as someone who really doesn't understand many basic concepts of public policy and government in our country.
    At least you are able to answer the questions she was not. So, you are for the elimination of the 'safety net' programs? I agree, they are expensive and there are sometimes abuses in these programs.
    But without them, we're talking about massive amounts of people, especially the elderly, being turned out into the streets and/or left to die. Are you for that? Are you for families, children who find themselves without health insurance through no fault of their own being denied any care whatsoever?
    There has been a lot of debate (on the news channels) on the health care bill that you may agree is BS & political posturing. What I would like to see is a debate on Constitutional grounds.
    Can they list next to each provision of whatever bill they pass what articles of the US Constitution were discussed and what articles give them the authority to allow that provision to remain? I don’t think they have the fortitude.
    I'd like to put you and Mrs. Abrams in a waiting room with the parents of a child who has gone into a coma with undiagnosed diabetes, or stopped breathing due to an asma attack that could have been stopped with an inhaler, or has a form of cancer that was treatable in the early stages. You look at them and explain your concept of 'general welfare.'
    I have been that person working 2 jobs with no insurance with a 2 year old son, who suffered grand mal seizures, spent a week in the hospital with no explanation. I understand what you are saying however, government is not a charity. The public monies should not be used for that purpose.
    Most reasonable people, conservative and liberal, agree that we are a compassionate nation with a history of smart 'safety net' programs. We learned from the massive poverty and crime during the Great Depression that it is in our best interest to be proactive in preventing poverty, crime, homelessness, with smart, pragmatic programs. The programs you mentioned are not prefect and have all undergone a lot of fine-tuning over the years. And there will always be someone looking for new ways to beat the system.
    You, like Katie Abram, really don't have a grasp on some basic concepts of government and the various types of government. It is difficult to discuss politics with you, because we come from different educational backgrounds. If I sound elitist, well, that may be from your POV.
    But I encourage you to brush up on your 20th Century history and poli sci.
    The country is indeed swinging, in some respects, to the left with the expansion of the Federal Government. But that's the platform Barack Obama ran on. And he won the election. This is the Democrats attempt to fix many problems in the financial, energy, and health industries. But there are no FACTS that in anyway indicate a move towards socialism or total government take over of any of these industries. If you believe that, you've been grossly misinformed.
    Many people come to political forums armed with what they think are the facts. They are content to know what they already know and are not very receptive to new or conflicting information. I would love to sit down with you and Katie Abrams, a computer and several reference books and just spend and hour or so helping you get better versed on basic poli sci, economic, and public policy concepts.
    I encourage you to listen to both sides, retreat and do some independent fact checking from a non-partisan source, then listen some more. And go to Wikipedia or your library and read up on Socialism and try to get a better understanding of what socialism in its many forms is and what it is not.
    We are a compassionate nation but to take (steal) from one to give to the other is wrong. We all love the story of Robin Hood but that is no way to run the government.
    I believe we can discuss politics regardless of our backgrounds or education. 20th century political history shows us that the progressive (socialist) movement has spawned great things like the USSR with the murder of millions of its citizens. The progressives gave us NAZI Germany, Communist China, Pol Pot, and others that have repressed their people and crush liberty.
    As far as the Socialist comment goes I would argue Fascist. Go to [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism]Fascism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] and scroll down to the heading “National corporatism, national socialism and national syndicalism” you will see that we are on the very edge of falling into a fascist democracy.
    Government has not taken over the corporations (ok may be GM) but it is favoring companies that can push its political agenda. Both parties have done this to us and we have allowed it to happen.
    We have been allowing them (the progressives) to destroy our nation for a long time. I don’t know why we have become vocal now. It should have been years ago. We lost our faith in the 2 party system, some years ago, some during the last administration and others in the last few months.
    Obama can do a lot, so long as he does not violate his oath of office by not staying within the frame work of the US Constitution.
    If you are in south central PA I would be happy to meet and discuss anything you like. I’m sure you will find I am not what you think.
    The simple fact is the federal government has no authority to provide health care. As a responsible employer, yes it does. As a governing body, to force this on the population, HELL NO.

  10. #110
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    re: Angry Man Tells Specter: God Will Judge You

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    The formula is simple -- when 1 million or more Americans would be laid off as a direct result of a large company or group of companies going under, the government will intervene in a (hopefully) smart and pragmatic way to prevent the massive and devastating poverty and crime we saw during the Great Depression.
    You have too much faith in men and government. Government in all forms is force. That is why the US Constitution is to be used as the maximum the federal government can do to us.
    I am a realist and I know that pragmatists typically win out but if you compromise on your ideals do you have any?

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