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Thread: Critics of "Obamacare" Actually Describe the Status Quo

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    Advisor Keorythe's Avatar
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    Re: Critics of "Obamacare" Actually Describe the Status Quo

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post
    1) Claim: that Obamacare will entail runaway costs, exploding our deficits. Reality: We currently spend far more than any other OECD country for health care relative to GDP. And every significant proposed cost-control initiative -- like a public option, or allowing the government to actually negotiate lower prices with the pharmaceutical industry -- is being attacked full-on by opponents of reform. There is simply no serious debate about whether our insanely convoluted, privately-based insurance system is far more expensive than any comprehensive single-payer system would be.
    Strawman. The current health care bill does not entail cost control initiatives. There are other bits of legislation that are going to address this issue. Cost reductions benefit both public and private health care plans.

    2) Claim: Obamacare represents a frontal attack on Americans' freedom, including their freedom to choose the health care that is best for them. Reality: The current market for health insurance in the United States is, for most Americans under the age of 65, a state-by-state market. And, far from being characterized by competition and choice, most states' health insurance markets are highly concentrated, with near-monopolies in numerous states. A public option would, in fact, clearly give many Americans more choice and more freedom than they have now, because Americans' fear of losing health insurance constrains their job mobility.
    True. Gives Americans a single extra option. This does not address the issue of cross state competition which is what has caused the monopolies in the first place. Likewise it also causes some of the biggest fiasco's for out of state coverage which lead to some of those infamous bankruptcies.

    3) Claim: Obamacare will mean runaway bureaucracy. Reality: Private insurers are far more bureaucratic and far less efficient than is Medicare, whose overhead costs are a fraction of the private insurers. Why? Because private insurers incur massive expense trying to figure out whom to insure and to whom they should deny coverage. Universal systems, like Medicare, don't have this problem. Some defenders of the status quo insist that private insurers incur high bureaucratic costs because they are trying to prevent fraud. But this is bogus. Fraud is a concern for Medicare and Medicaid as much as it is private insurers. Just ask Rick Scott. He's a ringleader of the anti-reform movement. He's also the founder of Columbia/HCA, a health care company that had to pay $1.7 billion in fines to the federal government, the largest medical fraud case in U.S. history.
    False, see next question: Looking at the cost of operating expenses shifted from Medicare back to the hospital and recouped by private insurance companies through upping the price of services. Guess why aspirin costs $20. Looking at the Veterans Association as a prime example of government run health care. A snapshot of what DOES happen when the government runs a hospital.

    4) Claim: Obamacare means rationing of health care. Reality: let's leave aside, for the moment, the hysterical claims being made about socialism trampling on our rights to get the care we want. The fact is that we now have rationing of health care. Every time an insurance company denies a claim, it's rationing health care. And denials of claims, as sentient American knows, are endemic in our system, as is the related practice of rescission, whereby insurance companies try to strip policy-holders of their coverage once the policy-holder becomes sick and actually needs coverage.
    Misdirection, does not address Medicare rationing: Rationing happens in both private and subsidized health care. Most Americans discover that Medicare and Medicaid are very limited in what they will cover only after they go on the plan. However, instead of being dropped fully by a plan the procedure is either no covered at all or given a set amount of funding to perform whether it covers the operating cost or not. Both denying claims and hard cap payments are rationing and can be eliminated by cost reduction plans which are not in this bill.

    5) Claim: Obamacare will set up death panels that will play God and decide who gets to live and who is condemned to die. This meme has become a staple of anti-reform propaganda and Sarah Palin weighed in this weekend to say that her son Trig might have been doomed to death by one such panel. Reality: We already have bureaucrats determining who gets to live and who gets to die -- insurance companies do this everyday.
    False, no death panels will happen. Too many lawsuits at risk.



    Plenty of ways to cut costs and eliminate many of the problems of our healthcare system. I'm all for Pres. Obama's initiative to have medical records online and easily accessible. I'm all for reducing medicals costs and expenditures. I'm all for breaking up monopolies within the healthcare system. This isn't the way though. Much of this could be accomplished through less complicated, better vetted, and separate legislation.

    The digital healthcare records plan was one of Obama's original promises. Why he didn't start with just that and concentrated on the other issues individually I'll never understand. It would have cut operational costs and simplified information transfer in one easy stroke. Something he could have received bipartisan support and held up as a triumph. Politicians just can't get it through their heads that overcomplicated laws are not the bees knees to the average joe.


    Healthcare is not a Right. It is a personal responsibility. No one has the right to demand that you pay for theirs.
    Last edited by Keorythe; 08-21-09 at 11:50 PM.
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  2. #12
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    formerroadie's Avatar
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    Re: Critics of "Obamacare" Actually Describe the Status Quo

    Quote Originally Posted by Keorythe View Post
    The current health care bill does not entail cost control initiatives. There are other bits of legislation that are going to address this issue. Cost reductions benefit both public and private health care plans.
    The very idea of a public option brings cost down because it creates competition. See, that's an idea the Repubs can agee with.

    True. Gives Americans a single extra option. This does not address the issue of cross state competition which is what has caused the monopolies in the first place. Likewise it also causes some of the biggest fiasco's for out of state coverage which lead to some of those infamous bankruptcies.
    The bill speaks of a catalog of public and private insurers. From what I understand, this means that everything will go federal instead of being bound by states. Therefore, you can be insured by any company you choose. How does that create monopolies? It actually gets rid of them.

    False, see next question: Looking at the cost of operating expenses shifted from Medicare back to the hospital and recouped by private insurance companies through upping the price of services. Guess why aspirin costs $20. Looking at the Veterans Association as a prime example of government run health care. A snapshot of what DOES happen when the government runs a hospital.
    And what bill would give the government opportunity to run a hospital? Seems you miss the point.

    Misdirection, does not address Medicare rationing: Rationing happens in both private and subsidized health care. Most Americans discover that Medicare and Medicaid are very limited in what they will cover only after they go on the plan. However, instead of being dropped fully by a plan the procedure is either no covered at all or given a set amount of funding to perform whether it covers the operating cost or not. Both denying claims and hard cap payments are rationing and can be eliminated by cost reduction plans which are not in this bill.
    You said yourself that they are in other bills which are currently being discussed, which is true. Now, please explain to me how a lower cost, non-profit government choice would create such a problem. Other countries don't have this issue. It's amazing that the American public who are against this are only using the examples of other countries that are struggling but refuse to look at those countries that succeed in this area. We have a bad system and the only way to take it on, with the massively power corporations, is to use the federal option. What don't you get about that?

    False, no death panels will happen. Too many lawsuits at risk.
    That's why you think it won't happen? sheesh.

    Plenty of ways to cut costs and eliminate many of the problems of our healthcare system. I'm all for Pres. Obama's initiative to have medical records online and easily accessible. I'm all for reducing medicals costs and expenditures. I'm all for breaking up monopolies within the healthcare system. This isn't the way though. Much of this could be accomplished through less complicated, better vetted, and separate legislation.
    Ok, what would you do outside a public option. I'm for single payer. Eliminate for profit care altogether.
    The digital healthcare records plan was one of Obama's original promises. Why he didn't start with just that and concentrated on the other issues individually I'll never understand. It would have cut operational costs and simplified information transfer in one easy stroke. Something he could have received bipartisan support and held up as a triumph. Politicians just can't get it through their heads that overcomplicated laws are not the bees knees to the average joe.
    Ok, perhaps, but we have waited some 60 years for this. Has this little by little approach done anything? No. What that does is give the ultra-rich corporations more time to twist politicians arms in their favor. You see, our country is not run primarily by yours or my choice. It is run primarily by corporate money that cares only about their stock prices and profit. Until people understand that as a whole, it will never sink in and they will continue to favor "freedom by the corporation" rather than getting the corporations to be more manageable. Don't get me wrong. I don't mind people making a profit. But there are certain areas where this should not happen and one of those is people's health.


    Healthcare is not a Right. It is a personal responsibility. No one has the right to demand that you pay for theirs.
    Hyperbole. What is it with conservatives and this line. Health Care SHOULD be a right. As fellow human beings, we should not let others suffer so we can buy one more video game for our game systems.
    It's time for a revolution in our country. Not a revolution forged with guns and bombs but a revolution forged of compassion and altruism. A revolution that extends a hand to those who don't have and who cannot. A revolution that makes Health Care available to all those in the US.

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