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After 6 Months, More View Obama's Presidency as a 'Failure' Than Bush's

Ikari said:
Conditions are a bit different, but that doesn't stop Obama from being a promise breaking protector of the status quo. He and Bush are peas in a pod, doing the same exact things pretty much. I don't know if you can say one is a greater failure than the other; they're both pretty much rock bottom.
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Possibly. The difference I think is that Obama is not as easily manipulated as Bush was. That and Obama actually has a brain. Bush is probably a decent man, but clearly not very intelligent, well, not enough to see he was getting played by people like Cheney, Armitage and Pearl to do really unethical stuff. That said, their policies for the most part are very similar if not identical.

But others have brought up a good point. Bush didn't screw the pooch in the first 6 months of his presidency. Obama's dealing with what is essentially a ****storm. How many presidents were rated well coming right into a massive crisis? Comparatively, the dot com crash's value destruction isn't anywhere near what we are seeing now.
 
So we should just give him a pass on his programs being a total failure?
 
Fiddytree said:
So, in other words, despite the fact that as far as I am aware, the conclusions reached by Team B are seen as uncertain as to the level of their accuracy (I don't necessarily defend their conclusions, just that it seems awfully difficult to argue one way or another), and that there were several non-neoconservatives in the Project for the New American Century, a grand conspiracy exists? I find it funny that you highlight Powell's right hand man in the administration for proof of a unified front. The CIA is not the end-all-be-all of policy decision-making.

Let me guess, either Adam Curtis or Anne Cahn.
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The team B conclusions were the basis for much of the arms build up during the Reagan years. Even though many of their conclusions turned out to be inaccurate. The point being that they disagreed with the CIA assessment then they ran counter-intelligence against the CIA to dispute the NIE. Even though the CIA is not the end-all-be-all their original assessment ended up being correct. Several members of the Bush administration were apart of the Project for the New American Century. They laid out what their plans were and 2 of the 3 countries they named we are currently bogged down in. What other way could you read their manifesto? They made it quite clear what they wanted.
 
GySgt said:
Yes...because "WMD" was not the factor involved. General Zinni was skeptical about WMD when all the targets in Iraq given to him in 1998 were non WMD sites. No intel proved that he got rid of them. No intel proved that he had them. I keep telling people this. 12 years of containing and maintaining the dictator, which was exactly what we were criticized for during the Cold War. With Bin Laden using the escallating troops and the "starving children of Iraq" as an excuse for 9/11, something had to be done to correct our solutions to the Middle East's disfunctions. Leaving him alone to disrupt the region was not going to happen. Continuing the UN mission, no matter how much of a burden it was to us, wasn't going to happen forever. And ignoring the very real grievances these terrorists have was only going to exponentially create more violence upon Americans.

It was time.
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Actually Bin Laden was upset about a number of things including our abandonment of aghanistan after we secretly funnelled arms to the Afghans during the 80s. Saddam was contained he was no longer a threat to his neighbors after we slapped him down over Kuwait and he might have been taken out in a coup by his own sons. When the inspectors were let back in after Bush's ultimatem they weren't finding anything no matter what tricks the inspectors used to fool sadam there just wasn't anything. Before letting the inspectors finish their job we told them to leave and invaded.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
:lol: at CNN putting this in thier "blog" section..... I guess they did not get the results they wanted.... :lol:


Has the shine come off of Obama? Are people realizing that he indeed is human, perhaps an incompetant one at that?

Polls mean little in the big picture, but all these small cracks in the damn, from this, his approval rating tanking, and people rising up in opposition to his agenda tend to indicate that yes indeed he may be losing badly.
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Better watch out, they'll call you racist.
 
phattonez said:
So we should just give him a pass on his programs being a total failure?
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Care to name specific programs?

The stimulus as a stimulus has failed due to is slowness. However, that does not mean it could not lay the foundation for better things to come.

I'd argue that Cash for Clunkers is a short term success but long term failure if the economy doesn't pick up. It's just shuffling demand from 3rd and 4th quarter to 1st and 2nd.

Obamacare isn't even legislated yet but will likely fail because it doesn't reform insurance.
 
obvious Child said:
Care to name specific programs?

The stimulus as a stimulus has failed due to is slowness. However, that does not mean it could not lay the foundation for better things to come.

I'd argue that Cash for Clunkers is a short term success but long term failure if the economy doesn't pick up. It's just shuffling demand from 3rd and 4th quarter to 1st and 2nd.

Obamacare isn't even legislated yet but will likely fail because it doesn't reform insurance.
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It's like you already know what I'm going to mention and then are making excuses for it too.
 
phattonez said:
It's like you already know what I'm going to mention and then are making excuses for it too.
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Correction, I make statements that when taken from historical view points avoid making me look like an idiot in the future. Notice this stance is not widely held here with idiots on the left and right making absolutist statements which come back to bite them in the butt. That's what an education is for. To realize there are always caveats and that situations change.

Also note that I consider CFC to be a long term failure barring a long term pickup in demand and that Obamacare will fail because it does not deal with the 800 lb gorilla. However, it should be noted I have argued that the GOP plan whatever that attempts to pass for also fails for the same reason.
 
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