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Thread: After 6 Months, More View Obama's Presidency as a 'Failure' Than Bush's

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    Re: After 6 Months, More View Obama's Presidency as a 'Failure' Than Bush's

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    I'm not interested in discussions with partisan slaves.

    After the Cold War ended, Bush had to figure out America's role in the world. This is where the Gulf War, for which the world jumped aboard, and Somalia, for which the world jumped on board, came in.

    Nothing got ugly. Clinton ran on a campaign that blasted Bush for coddling Saddam Hussein after the Gulf War and for being soft on communist China. And for Clinton's 8 years, we coddled Saddam Hussein and remained soft on China. Until 9/11 Bush was traveling the same path. All the while all three were trying to figure out a national policy that guided America's role in the coonfusing post Cold War.

    I might agree with you except for one HUGE thing. GWB surrounded himself with Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfield, both of which had tried (unsuccessfully) to convince at least 3 prior Presidents of the advantages of invading Iraq. (Call it nation-building, imperialism, or national security...whatever your pleasure)...the reality is, they had an agenda that they clearly wanted to pursue.

    Was GWB a pawn in their game or an active participant? That is not clear.
    I suspect the former.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: After 6 Months, More View Obama's Presidency as a 'Failure' Than Bush's

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I might agree with you except for one HUGE thing. GWB surrounded himself with Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfield, both of which had tried (unsuccessfully) to convince at least 3 prior Presidents of the advantages of invading Iraq. (Call it nation-building, imperialism, or national security...whatever your pleasure)...the reality is, they had an agenda that they clearly wanted to pursue.

    Was GWB a pawn in their game or an active participant? That is not clear.
    I suspect the former.
    You got some docs to support that claim?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: After 6 Months, More View Obama's Presidency as a 'Failure' Than Bush's

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You got some docs to support that claim?

    Its been documented historically. Here's a good basic rundown dating back to Nixon. This is a good place to start your research:


    frontline: rumsfeld's war: paths to power: nixon administration | PBS
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: After 6 Months, More View Obama's Presidency as a 'Failure' Than Bush's

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Its been documented historically. Here's a good basic rundown dating back to Nixon. This is a good place to start your research:


    frontline: rumsfeld's war: paths to power: nixon administration | PBS

    Um, no, I'm not going to do your research. You're always demanding that people support their comments, it's time to practice what you preach, sir.


    You link doesn't show where Rumsfeld, or Cheney tried to encourage the three presidents before GWB to invade Iraq. Did I miss it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: After 6 Months, More View Obama's Presidency as a 'Failure' Than Bush's

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Um, no, I'm not going to do your research. You're always demanding that people support their comments, it's time to practice what you preach, sir.


    You link doesn't show where Rumsfeld, or Cheney tried to encourage the three presidents before GWB to invade Iraq. Did I miss it?

    Yes...you missed it. The link actually documents in great detail the relationships that each had with prior administrations dating back to Nixon.

    That said....obviously you've mistaken me with someone else. Playing the "post a link" bit has never been my m/o on this site.

    BTW....I'm not suggesting that you do MY research. What I'm saying is that there are some people who will criticize any link you provide. What I was alluding to is that this is a good place to start. If you want to follow-up and research more, that is up to you. The link, however, does provide a good starting point for those who are unfamiliar with the players and how they have been involved in prior administrations.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: After 6 Months, More View Obama's Presidency as a 'Failure' Than Bush's

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Yes...you missed it. The link actually documents in great detail the relationships that each had with prior administrations dating back to Nixon.

    That said....obviously you've mistaken me with someone else. Playing the "post a link" bit has never been my m/o on this site.

    BTW....I'm not suggesting that you do MY research. What I'm saying is that there are some people who will criticize any link you provide. What I was alluding to is that this is a good place to start. If you want to follow-up and research more, that is up to you. The link, however, does provide a good starting point for those who are unfamiliar with the players and how they have been involved in prior administrations.
    How about you post that particular piece, because, on the page you posted, the word, "Iraq", doesn't appear, not even once. Kindly help me out with that, thank you.

    I'm not criticizing your source, except that nowhere does it say what you say it's supposed to say.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: After 6 Months, More View Obama's Presidency as a 'Failure' Than Bush's

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Um, no, I'm not going to do your research. You're always demanding that people support their comments, it's time to practice what you preach, sir.


    You link doesn't show where Rumsfeld, or Cheney tried to encourage the three presidents before GWB to invade Iraq. Did I miss it?
    Maybe you should do some research instead of remaining woefully ignorant all the time? It just amazes me how people seem to think ignorance is a badge to wear on their shoulder. There does come a time when certain items do not need further explanation or sourcing, they are common knowledge among society. Like a certain idiot that keeps PM'ing me thinking that [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO"]COINTELPRO[/ame] is some tinfoil hat conspiracy....good lord. This is the best example of why we need a better education system, and why people need to take responsibility in not just listening to solely their partisan news.

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    Re: After 6 Months, More View Obama's Presidency as a 'Failure' Than Bush's

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    How about you post that particular piece, because, on the page you posted, the word, "Iraq", doesn't appear, not even once. Kindly help me out with that, thank you.

    I'm not criticizing your source, except that nowhere does it say what you say it's supposed to say.
    Not a problem. You have to familiarize yourself a little with the website in order to get the information.

    If you look about 1/8 of the way down the page, you'll see that it lists all of the administration. You have to click each of the prior administration's to see their involvement with each of the prior administrations.

    That said, I may have misspoke, however, it may only be 2 prior administrations not three. I recall it being 3, namely Reagan and HW Bush, but I seem to recall that they were involved in trying to convince either Nixon and/or Ford as well. Its been a while since I've read up on this particular issue.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: After 6 Months, More View Obama's Presidency as a 'Failure' Than Bush's

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post
    Maybe you should do some research instead of remaining woefully ignorant all the time? It just amazes me how people seem to think ignorance is a badge to wear on their shoulder. There does come a time when certain items do not need further explanation or sourcing, they are common knowledge among society. Like a certain idiot that keeps PM'ing me thinking that COINTELPRO is some tinfoil hat conspiracy....good lord. This is the best example of why we need a better education system, and why people need to take responsibility in not just listening to solely their partisan news.

    Huh? I never PM'ed you. I only asked for some supporting docs. Doesn't make ignorant, unless the information actually exists, which isn't looking highly likely at this point.


    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Not a problem. You have to familiarize yourself a little with the website in order to get the information.

    If you look about 1/8 of the way down the page, you'll see that it lists all of the administration. You have to click each of the prior administration's to see their involvement with each of the prior administrations.

    That said, I may have misspoke, however, it may only be 2 prior administrations not three. I recall it being 3, namely Reagan and HW Bush, but I seem to recall that they were involved in trying to convince either Nixon and/or Ford as well. Its been a while since I've read up on this particular issue.

    I clicked on all that crap and still didn't see anything that would support what you're saying. Maybe you should use another source? Not that there's anything wrong with that one, except that the info you claim is there, isn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: After 6 Months, More View Obama's Presidency as a 'Failure' Than Bush's

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Hehehe, I'm sorry but that's gotta chap Obama's ego...
    Actually he probably is wondering how anyone who has a clue about politics can assess the success or failure of a presidents term after only 6 months of a 4 year term. This sounds more like wishful thinking.

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