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Thread: Republican Attacks FISHY White House Request

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    Re: Republican Attacks FISHY White House Request

    Last night a TV commentator hit the nail on the head, I believe. His belief is that most of these angry protests are not really aimed at HC reform but displays of anger that Obama won the election.
    That's what this all boils down to...Hatred (for whatever reason) & anger that after 8 years of power, the Repub party is now relegated to a small, regional group of angry old white, Christian men.
    Last edited by Devil505; 08-07-09 at 08:44 AM.

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    Re: Republican Attacks FISHY White House Request

    Quote Originally Posted by galenrox View Post
    Alright, let's think about this. You're running a conservative political operation, hiring operatives to infiltrate protests, presumably to further a conservative interest. Why in the **** would you have these operatives hold up Nazi placards?
    I mean, someone with even the most basic deductive capabilities would realize that if those individuals are in fact paid political operatives they'd be liberal operatives, as there is no possible political benefit in making your fiscal movement look like it's a bunch of nazis.
    (Can't edit my original post anymore but I wanted to add a few lines)



    Because they're idiots trying to paint Obama & HC reform as Nazis!...Get it!



    same idiocy that had McCain, who had been effectively running against Obama as to young & untried.....Then picking Sarah Palin as his running mate????

    same idiocy that had most Repubs voting against judge Sotomayer's confirmation, knowing full well she would be easily confirmed anyway but ensuring the ,loss of most Latino votes for the forseeable future.

    same idiocy that had many Repubs defend this country's use of torture


    (I could go on all day)
    Last edited by Devil505; 08-07-09 at 08:42 AM.

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    Re: Republican Attacks FISHY White House Request

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Last night a TV commentator hit the nail on the head, I believe. His belief is that most of these angry protests are not really aimed at HC reform but displays of anger that Obama won the election.
    That's what this all boils down to...Hatred (for whatever reason) & anger that after 8 years of power, the Repub party is now relegated to a small, regional group of angry old white, Christian men.
    Breitbart.tv AARP Organizers Cancel ‘Listening Session’ After Participants Refuse to ‘Keep Their Comments Quiet’

    So members of AARP objecting to AARP's stance on health care, to the point of cancelling their AARP memberships, is a put-up job because somebody is miffed that Dear Leader won last fall?

    Protesters Confront U.S. Representative At Simsbury Supermarket Meeting -- Courant.com

    But many who attended were not affiliated with an established group. Maryann Culkin, a stay-at-home mother from Avon, said she represents no one but herself. She went to Stop & Shop simply because she wanted to have a word or two with her congressman.

    "For the first time in my life, I'm embarrassed and scared of where my country is going," Culkin told Murphy. She is worried about how the government will pay for Obama's health care policies.
    So the Maryann Culkins of Connecticut are the paid stoolies of "angry old white, Christian men"?

    Tempers flare in South Florida over healthcare overhaul - Today's Top Stories - MiamiHerald.com

    From Connecticut, to Florida, to Texas--that's a pretty large "region" for the "angry old white, Christian men."

    OR

    It's the real deal. People are really that displeased with the dung heap of HR3200, really that disturbed at the probability of new and oppressive taxes to pay for the privilege of having less of what they already have (health insurance and health care), and are really that disapproving of the government sticking its nose that far into people's private affairs.

    Perhaps the Anti-Republicans need to re-read the Constitution, and re-consider government's defined place in American society per the Constitution. Of a certainty, that renowned Constitutional scholar Dear Leader should be introduced to a brief lesson in the Constitution:


    "Ours was the first revolution in the history of mankind that truly reversed the course of government, and with three little words: 'We the people.' 'We the people' tell the government what to do, it doesn't tell us. 'We the people' are the driver, the government is the car. And we decide where it should go, and by what route, and how fast. Almost all the world's constitutions are documents in which governments tell the people what their privileges are. Our Constitution is a document in which 'We the people' tell the government what it is allowed to do. 'We the people' are free.

    "We the People" are telling Congress and Dear Leader to STOP.

    STOP spending money America does not have.

    STOP driving up the deficit with huge unfunded entitlements.

    STOP pushing GovernmentCare on people who like what they have.

    STOP threatening to tax health insurance to pay for GovernmentCare.

    So far, the Anti-Republican response to "We the People" has been "Oh, the people are idiots, we don't have to listen to them."

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    Re: Republican Attacks FISHY White House Request

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Breitbart.tv AARP Organizers Cancel ‘Listening Session’ After Participants Refuse to ‘Keep Their Comments Quiet’

    So members of AARP objecting to AARP's stance on health care, to the point of cancelling their AARP memberships, is a put-up job because somebody is miffed that Dear Leader won last fall?

    Protesters Confront U.S. Representative At Simsbury Supermarket Meeting -- Courant.com

    So the Maryann Culkins of Connecticut are the paid stoolies of "angry old white, Christian men"?

    Tempers flare in South Florida over healthcare overhaul - Today's Top Stories - MiamiHerald.com

    From Connecticut, to Florida, to Texas--that's a pretty large "region" for the "angry old white, Christian men."

    OR

    It's the real deal. People are really that displeased with the dung heap of HR3200, really that disturbed at the probability of new and oppressive taxes to pay for the privilege of having less of what they already have (health insurance and health care), and are really that disapproving of the government sticking its nose that far into people's private affairs.

    Perhaps the Anti-Republicans need to re-read the Constitution, and re-consider government's defined place in American society per the Constitution. Of a certainty, that renowned Constitutional scholar Dear Leader should be introduced to a brief lesson in the Constitution:



    "We the People" are telling Congress and Dear Leader to STOP.

    STOP spending money America does not have.

    STOP driving up the deficit with huge unfunded entitlements.

    STOP pushing GovernmentCare on people who like what they have.

    STOP threatening to tax health insurance to pay for GovernmentCare.

    So far, the Anti-Republican response to "We the People" has been "Oh, the people are idiots, we don't have to listen to them."
    I just don't buy this sudden fear of how we're going to pay for things that some people claim. I heard none of these fears when Bush got this country into two never ending wars & cut taxes at the same time.

    We all see this crap for what it really is...GOP Fiscal Responsibility ONLY when a Dem is in the White House & a continuance of the Karl Rove style, "Fear Based" politics that was soundly rejected in the last two elections when the GOP was thrown out of the White House & most of Congress.

    Edit: & yes....I believe those linked meetings you attached disclose carefully staged, HC Industry/GOP operatives attempting to deceive (their usual tactic) the media into thinking that this country doesn't want HC reform.(It's so Ham Handed & obvious that it's just the latest insult to the intelligence of the average America)
    Last edited by Devil505; 08-07-09 at 10:20 AM.

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    Re: Republican Attacks FISHY White House Request

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    I just don't buy this sudden fear of how we're going to pay for things that some people claim. I heard none of these fears when Bush got this country into two never ending wars & cut taxes at the same time.
    I disagree, spending on the war was an issue by some, I don't have a problem if the spending is efficient when it comes to defense, as that is a power and responsibilty of the fed, there were, however, some inefficiencies and we will certainly be paying for those.

    We all see this crap for what it really is...GOP Fiscal Responsibility ONLY when a Dem is in the White House & a continuance of the Karl Rove style, "Fear Based" politics that was soundly rejected in the last two elections when the GOP was thrown out of the White House & most of Congress.
    I don't know whether it is fake fiscal responsibility on the Republican side or that the offenders were removed from office by the voters, time will tell on that.

    Edit: & yes....I believe those linked meetings you attached disclose carefully staged, HC Industry/GOP operatives attempting to deceive (their usual tactic) the media into thinking that this country doesn't want HC reform.(It's so Ham Handed & obvious that it's just the latest insult to the intelligence of the average America)
    Here's the thing though, polling is showing that americans in fact don't want UHC as it is being presented, so it's hard to say definitively that these are staged protests, I would need rock solid, unbiased proof.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Republican Attacks FISHY White House Request

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    I just don't buy this sudden fear of how we're going to pay for things that some people claim. I heard none of these fears when Bush got this country into two never ending wars & cut taxes at the same time.
    1. The conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan were never intended to be perpetual. The Anti-Republicans want GovernmentCare to be perpetual.
    2. War is a proper use of the public fisc. We pay taxes so the government has the money to overseas and blow things up.
    3. Folks on both sides complained about Bush's spending--and complained more loudly as the spending went on. Dear Leader continued the spending, so the complaining has gotten still louder.
    4. Whatever mistakes were made in the past do not justify perpetuating those mistakes in the future. If it was wrong for Bush to spend, it is wrong for Dear Leader to spend, and it is doubly wrong for him to spend at a ten times the rate of Bush.
    5. The American people have said "enough" to deficit spending. "We the people" still run this country. Dear Leader needs to listen and put his shopaholism in neutral.

    "Ours was the first revolution in the history of mankind that truly reversed the course of government, and with three little words: 'We the people.' 'We the people' tell the government what to do, it doesn't tell us. 'We the people' are the driver, the government is the car. And we decide where it should go, and by what route, and how fast. Almost all the world's constitutions are documents in which governments tell the people what their privileges are. Our Constitution is a document in which 'We the people' tell the government what it is allowed to do. 'We the people' are free.

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    Re: Republican Attacks FISHY White House Request

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I disagree, spending on the war was an issue by some, I don't have a problem if the spending is efficient when it comes to defense, as that is a power and responsibilty of the fed, there were, however, some inefficiencies and we will certainly be paying for those.
    I say spending is spending. If we cant afford it, it doesn't matter what iut's for.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I don't know whether it is fake fiscal responsibility on the Republican side or that the offenders were removed from office by the voters, time will tell on that.
    If you look at most of the loudest Repub pols/leaders who are now screaming "Fiscal Responsibility" they are the very same ones who said nothing under Bush. (Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY), House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) and House Minority Whip Eric Cantor (R-VA)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Here's the thing though, polling is showing that americans in fact don't want UHC as it is being presented, so it's hard to say definitively that these are staged protests, I would need rock solid, unbiased proof.
    It depends strictly on which polls you read. The fact is that Obama was elected with his promise of instituting major HC reform in this country. Most Americans believe we desperately need to change the present system & I believe the GOP is simply acting as a front for the HC industry & wants to protect corporate profits by stopping ANY meaningful reforms.



    Nice to be able to exchange views with you, without resorting to name calling & hysteria that some resort to on this forum.
    Thanks for being civil!

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    Re: Republican Attacks FISHY White House Request

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    I say spending is spending. If we cant afford it, it doesn't matter what iut's for.
    The verdict of the CBO--we can't afford GovernmentCare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    If you look at most of the loudest Repub pols/leaders who are now screaming "Fiscal Responsibility" they are the very same ones who said nothing under Bush. (Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY), House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) and House Minority Whip Eric Cantor (R-VA)
    Why does that matter? If, as you say, "spending is spending," and we shouldn't spend what we can't afford, and the CBO confirms we cannot afford GovernmentCare, why not make common cause with these people on a point they happen to have correct?

    Is it so important to oppose these men that fiscal prudence is pushed to the back, and partisan politicking takes precedence?

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    Re: Republican Attacks FISHY White House Request

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    I say spending is spending. If we cant afford it, it doesn't matter what iut's for.
    On it's face you are correct, but IMO it goes further, there is legitimate spending and then there is what we've had for close to a century in this country, all beauracracies are inefficient, so none are immune to criticism, but it is a failing of the system itself, inefficiency is encouraged by policy, instead of punished. The earmarks were another problem, they are a gross misuse of the public purse and both parties are guilty to a high degree, I make no excuses for my side, and in fact that is a large reason many of them were sent back to the private sector.



    If you look at most of the loudest Repub pols/leaders who are now screaming "Fiscal Responsibility" they are the very same ones who said nothing under Bush. (Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY), House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) and House Minority Whip Eric Cantor (R-VA)
    They did tow the party line, I am not sure if they were up for election that year or not, but it is an interesting point, if they are deemed that bad, they will be gone soon, which is the overall point, people are getting sick of out of control spending from both sides.



    It depends strictly on which polls you read. The fact is that Obama was elected with his promise of instituting major HC reform in this country. Most Americans believe we desperately need to change the present system & I believe the GOP is simply acting as a front for the HC industry & wants to protect corporate profits by stopping ANY meaningful reforms.
    The two I trust the most are Zogby and Rasmussen, partially because their methodology is open, partially because they sample correctly and use random variables, and mainly because their numbers seem to line up more often than not. They are what I am basing the argument off of.


    Nice to be able to exchange views with you, without resorting to name calling & hysteria that some resort to on this forum.
    Thanks for being civil!
    Sure thing.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Republican Attacks FISHY White House Request

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    1. The conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan were never intended to be perpetual. The Anti-Republicans want GovernmentCare to be perpetual.
    1. A short term bad thing is still bad & a long term good thing is still good.

      Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    2. War is a proper use of the public fisc. We pay taxes so the government has the money to overseas and blow things up.
    I disagree. Not ALL wars are a "proper use of the public fisc"
    (especially if started based on decieving the Congress & public)

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
  11. Folks on both sides complained about Bush's spending--and complained more loudly as the spending went on.
Really?...Have a link to any of the following Repub leaders complaining about Bush's spending?..Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY), House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) and House Minority Whip Eric Cantor (R-VA)



Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
  • The American people have said "enough" to deficit spending. "We the people" still run this country. Dear Leader needs to listen and put his shopaholism in neutral.
  • It isn't the American people who have said that, it's the GOP. The American people elected Obama knowing full well of his intentions to inject lots of money into our economy & to reform HC.
    Saying something doesn't make it so.
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