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Blackwater founder implicated in murder

I always get a kick out of this. Everyone seems to want to criticize Blackwater and to call them "was profiteers" or "murderers." This is too simple. The fact is that any organization placed in a situation they do not belong will trip and stumble all over the place. And it has been happening for 19 years. Consider this.....

1) We had the world's greatest intelligence agency for decades when all it had to do was focus on a red enemy behind an Iron Curtain. But when that wall came down in '89, it was left disorganized and confused about the world that emerged. It would be easy to blame the CIA for not predicting 9/11 (which plenty do), but the truth is that even the great CIA fell victim to the politicians sense that "our wars were over."

2) Enter the grand idea to dwindle the numbers of our military under President Bush (Dad). And with the war gamer's wet dream of the Gulf War (the "Drive-by" War), the overwhelming idea throughout Washington was that our future wars were all going to be determined by technology alone with the barest minimum of troops on the ground. The rediculous and stubborn idea that stripping our troop strength was perfectly fine as long as a smart bomb replaced a hundred troops.

3) But even as these draw downs in numbers continued, the missions grew. From Somalia, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Bosnia, Kosovo, Indonesia, etc., the military found itself dropped into UN & NATO humanitarian and policing missions it was ill equipped, under funded, and ill trained for. It was like dropping a constructionist of homes onto a river bank and telling him to build a damn. With troops spread thin and learning in the fire, something had to be done....

4) The idea of privatization took a front row seat. Civilian organizations that offerred supplies and support began to be introduced as mission accomplishment factors. To make matters worse, the idea of the "non-lethal" weapon found itself to President Clinton's ear and the Defense Industry was tasked to build impractical weapons. With the Defense Industry working overtime to produce fancy toys (with China being the big bad boogeyman to prepare for in Washington), now they were developing guns that shot nets and bean bags.

5) In 2003, the average American citizen was caught off guard as they complained about the troop entering Iraq with NBC suits that needed duct tape to seal the tears, the lack of body armor to preserve life, weapons that were models used in Vietnam, and helicopters that carried troops over the jungles of Vietnam. Somehow, this problem developed the day President Bush (Son) was elected. But President Bush and his court idiot Rumsfeld were big fans of privatization and technology. "Shock and Awe" was supposed to be the Gulf War Part 2 while the barest of troops walked in and took prisoners. For 10 years (1993~2003) civilian organizations took the place of military personel that were asked to leave service to accomadate the politicians idea of what our military was supposed to look like in the post Cold War. It culminated and resulted into an American military running out of ammo and food just north of An Nazariya leaving an airwing Colonel in Kuwait to forceably take supplies from civilian companies, which would not cross the line to the war zone, as they frantically waved their contracts about and made pointless formal complaints to people who patted them on their backs and still wrote their checks.

6) But though this contractor's bare minimum idea was typical of the 1990s it was disgusting in 2003. Worse, for Iraq and Afghanistan, President Bush changed the rules. Now, not only did the American troop have to rely upon untrained civilians to provide them their support, they also had to figure out if that bearded trigger happy idiot in blue jeans and Oakleys, who was guarding contractors in a target area, was a good guy or a bad guy. So many stupid acts were attributed to the military by the irresponsible media of all nations. So many military resources were taken out of mission to rush to the needs of Blackwater guards who fell under attack or needed someone to make sense of some confusing firefight that just took place.


The irony here (if lost over the years) is the money. As far back as 1990, the idea to kill troop numbers and provide less funding to them in order to free money up to be used on the American society was perverted. The freed up money grew significantly and grossly and merely wound up going to private companies and contractors to fill the gaps that the American troop used to fill. Today, Congress has agreed that greater numbers are needed to meet the demands of our government and this twisted out immoral world. The equipment began to flow in 2003. The funding began to refocus on the troop as the militaries developed combat towns. Protection for the individual troop became a focus with body armor and UpArmor for HMMWVs and the MRAPP (though the F/A-22 continued to receive gross amounts of money to continue its parked mission in hangers). Now our numbers are going back up (thankfully) but with the extra garbage of expenditures towards privatization. Where exactly did our government save money by hurting the troop for so long?

Blackwater is a result. A symptom of bad governance, bad common sense intelligence, and ignorant understandings by Republican to Democrat to Republican White House stewardship. But the average critic will continue to blame Blackwater as if they took it upon themselves to board airplanes and enter a warzone. They will continue to criticize KBR as if they floated over and set up camp without permission. All this privatization came with a price. A price these companies don't have to pay neither in treasure or blood. And none of them answer to anybody but other civilians who are also receiving inflated paychecks to simple exist where military personel used to for far less. At least the military man had (has) the UCMJ. What does the civilian contractor have?

Criticize our stupid governance. Not the symptoms of it. Is this guy guilty of murder? Who cares. He's an individual. There's a bigger beast our society keeps ignoring.
 
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She's trying the case in the newspaper? Not in a Federal Court in Alexandria, Virginia. Okay. *shrugs shoulders*

It's a common tactic in civil cases and by defense counsel to "try the case" in the court of public opinion. They're the ones who have the most to gain by swaying public sentiment to their side.
 
I have never read/heard of a former employee making this type of allegation before. But...okay.
well considering the line of work they are in, he had to swing big and go for the fences ;)
I do not give this much credence, but if it plays out against the accused, all the better.
if it is a blowhard bitter ex-employee making a false claim, the law can not deal harsh enough with him/her
 
The article states there is corroborating evidence, it is not hearsay. Face it, your precious Blackwater patriots are killers.

you do realize that Killing is in all their recruiting literature
It is in the contract they have to sign to work there
and it is their ****ing job :2wave:

you know what else, Our USMC USArmy USAF & USN are filled with killers too.

its what they are paid to do
cant wait to see how his hyperpartisan filter twists and manipulates this reply :lol:
 
you do realize that Killing is in all their recruiting literature
It is in the contract they have to sign to work there
and it is their ****ing job :2wave:

you know what else, Our USMC USArmy USAF & USN are filled with killers too.

its what they are paid to do
cant wait to see how his hyperpartisan filter twists and manipulates this reply :lol:

They shouldn't be paid for it at all. We have a military for a reason. They are supposed to be our killers. Not a bunch of civilians who don't even answer to the UCMJ or strip military resources when they need rescued.
 
They shouldn't be paid for it at all. We have a military for a reason. They are supposed to be our killers. Not a bunch of civilians who don't even answer to the UCMJ or strip military resources when they need rescued.

I agree & let's not forget Blackwater is a subsidiary of the biggest war profiteer in history.... Former VP Dick Cheney, whos Haliburton gleefully profited off the bodies of dead American GI's. (How many deferments did Cheney get to weasel his way out of fighting in Vietnam?......it was 8 I think.)
 
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I agree & let's not forget Blackwater is a subsidiary of the biggest war profiteer in history.... Former VP Dick Cheney, whos Haliburton gleefully profited off the bodies of dead American GI's. (How many deferments did Cheney get to weasel his way out of fighting in Vietnam?......it was 8 I think.)

Biggest war profiteer in history? Ever heard of Lockheed & Martin? Or Boeing? So what? How many Americans have stocks and bonds in companies that provide to the military? The term "war profiteer" can be attributed to every company or individual that makes money that has anything to do with providing the military anything from boots (which are too expensive), to tanks, to MRE spoons. For some reason the war profiteer is always merely the guy people don't like.

Our government suffers from bad decision making because it grows further and further away from military service. Blame the cowards and hippies of the Vietnam era. There dissendents find themselves above military service, yet cling to the license, wihch allows them to send them to their deaths because they voted for office. Washington is full of politicians who ran as far as they could from military service. And the last 3 presidents? Clinton dodged. Bush did as little as possible in the Air National Guard Reserve. And Obama? Well, at least he seems to understand enough to listen those who do, which is a fresh idea for the White House since 1992.

Everything in our society has changed in regards to military service. How many actors during World War II wore a uniform or at least traveled on USO shows? Or how many Hollywood movies were released for decades after celebrating the glory of "military" service? Where are the Audy Murphys or the Bob Hopes? Even Elvis Presley wore a uniform. But after the war in Vietnam we get to be entertained with "M.A.S.H.", which showed American troops bewildered, undisciplined, and protesting their way through television seasons. Oliver Stone shows us the moral undisciplined conflict of soldeirs in Vietnam as they kill each other and murder civilians with "Platoon." We get to watch "Rambo" self destruct in an American town as he represents the wounded psychy of the poor American soldier who can't cope with war's reality. Michael J. Fox and Sean Penn struggle with the subject of the rapist soldiers in Vietnam with "Casualties of War." And today we live in a society that "Supports The Troop, But Not The War" simply because it is more politically correct than stabbing him in the back. Today we are portrayed as victims of corporate greed and deeply damaged due to our signed up for experiences.

Our whole society is confused and behaving badly in regards to military service. From Washington to Hollywood to the media. Everyone's making money in all three areas. And none of them truly understand the guy in the boots, yet fancies themselves a voice of conscience for him.
 
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HaHa this is funny wait so let me get this correct, a few Un Named Source are making Claims that the guy who founded Blackwater did what. Sure and the next thing you guys are going ot tell me is that we didn't go to the Moon either and we never actually drop either Atomic Bombs on Japan.:roll:
 
I agree & let's not forget Blackwater is a subsidiary of the biggest war profiteer in history.... Former VP Dick Cheney, whos Haliburton gleefully profited off the bodies of dead American GI's. (How many deferments did Cheney get to weasel his way out of fighting in Vietnam?......it was 8 I think.)




Blackwater is a subsidary of haliburton and dick cheney?


Are facts things that you don't dabble in? :lol:
 
Biggest war profiteer in history? So what?

A VP who was instrumental in lying his country into a war, some believe strictly to make money off the bodies of our GI's??

So What???
:thumbdown:shoot
 
They shouldn't be paid for it at all. We have a military for a reason. They are supposed to be our killers. Not a bunch of civilians who don't even answer to the UCMJ or strip military resources when they need rescued.
I have no problem with the suggestion, I would even prefer it
but the reality is today is...
 
A VP who was instrumental in lying his country into a war, some believe strictly to make money off the bodies of our GI's??

Well, "some" are just stupid. Only simplistic fools would think that Iraq was about one man's quest to make some dough. Isn't there enough legitimate issues for "some" to complain about without immersing in BS?

How about the fact that protecting the dictator for 12 years was a burden placed on our military that one day had to come to an end? Or the fact that as late as 2002 Hussein was flying military jets over Jordanian and Saudi airspace thereby insisting that we continue his games so the UN could continue its scandals? Or that Bin Laden would use our continued presence as a justification for 9/11? Or that ridding us and the Middle East of this thorn once and for all may give us an opportunity to steer the entire region in a different direction? People complain about our relationships with the Sauds for oil. Well, better to get our oil from democracies than from dictators, right? Or is the American critic largely full of ****?

But oh no. Let's dismiss all these practical very real things and embrace the notion that it was all about one man's desire to fatten his bank account. Move on from the conspiracies and the simplistic easy to grasp views dude. There is a bigger picture and a bigger world at play.
 
I remember at one point the DoD et al weren't even sure of how many companies were providing private security services in Iraq at the US expense. I think that may be a sign of less than optimal oversight, "subject to authority" or no.

I completely agree that there was a long period where oversight was nowhere near what it should have been. I think that the current situation is much improved, and should be completely resolved within the next few months with their exit.

You are defending Blackwater? Sweet:shoot:catapult::gunner::blastem:

Yes, that's exactly what I was saying.

The story is based on sworn testimony from multiple sources, this is not rumor or conjecture.

No, it's based on hearsay testimony from two anonymous sources.

They are federal witnesses under protection. Why? Because Blackwater has already killed other witnesses.

Lol, no they're not. Did you read anything from the article (or better yet, an article not written by a left-wing nutjob?

US Attorneys are not involved in civil cases

Yes, they most certainly are. Not that it really matters, because they're not involved in this civil case, which is brought by a private plaintiff's attorney.

and eyewitness testimony is neither rumor nor conjecture.

Again, you're so blatantly misstating the facts that I'm forced to conclude that you didn't read anything about this.

Where exactly did it say that either of these people witnessed anything?

The US Attorney would not comment on his involvement, where did it say he was not involved? Who do you think would be involved in this case, Orly Taint?

A liberal version of her.


Yes, but it doesn't fall within any of those.

How do you know there's no corroborating evidence?

There very well may be. However, the statements that have been offered so far are patently insufficient to withstand a motion to dismiss.

The article states there is corroborating evidence, it is not hearsay. Face it, your precious Blackwater patriots are killers.

You're officially off the reservation.

A VP who was instrumental in lying his country into a war, some believe strictly to make money off the bodies of our GI's??

So What???

Link?
 
I understand some of the .mil's distaste for contractors.... I was one, during the clinton era... imagine that... :lol: I can appreciate gunny's dislike for the whole concept.


What I can't get is the neverbeens, seething hatred.......
 
The billions that went to creating the various private armies out there will come back to bite us in the butt.

The private security companies feeding at the public trough included ones who had hired war criminals from SA, ones run by folks who passed sensitive US intel to Iran, and various other improprieties.
These folks got their slices of billions of US taxpayer money.

There're very good reasons why the govt should have the monopoly on military force.

W/e concerns there are about Blackwater, it's really not as big of a deal as the less famous foreign ones the American general public hasn't heard of...yet. I am sadly confident that in the next decade we will learn of others who got their big break in Iraq.
 
There very well may be. However, the statements that have been offered so far are patently insufficient to withstand a motion to dismiss.

I'll let the judge make that determination.
 
I understand some of the .mil's distaste for contractors.... I was one, during the clinton era... imagine that... :lol: I can appreciate gunny's dislike for the whole concept.


What I can't get is the neverbeens, seething hatred.......

I don't know if more than one person is showing hatred in this thread. Nevertheless, it's not like Blackwater has a untarnished record. Manslaughter Charges in Blackwater Case - WSJ.com
 
I understand some of the .mil's distaste for contractors.... I was one, during the clinton era... imagine that... :lol: I can appreciate gunny's dislike for the whole concept.


What I can't get is the neverbeens, seething hatred.......

Oh you don't get it? You claim to be a veteran, let's see you defend this:
prinz.jpg
 
Oh you don't get it? You claim to be a veteran, let's see you defend this:
prinz.jpg



So are you suggesting that military folk never said things like "haji" "raghead" or about how they were there to kill the savages?


Really? Is this your "evidence"?



MLIclean.jpg



You really are rather ignorant on things like this, I find it shameful that you look for ways to falsey accuse people who served of crimes for your politics.
 
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I don't know if more than one person is showing hatred in this thread. Nevertheless, it's not like Blackwater has a untarnished record. Manslaughter Charges in Blackwater Case - WSJ.com
with a quick google search we can find cases of a member of every branch of the military commiting manslaughter. should we condemn the entire military?
in every major city there can easily be found a case of a cop committing manslaughter. do we condemn the entire police force?

Sole exception would be L.A. where we all now know that promotions are given out based on the number of clean shootings of minorities the white cop has:roll:
 
What I can't get is the neverbeens, seething hatred.......

It's because it was associated to the Bush regime. Nothing more. People are too busy criticizing symptoms. And this goes for all things. Even terrorism. Even criticizing Bush for what is really a Washington problem shows a degree of ignorance from those merely concerned with political bashing.
 
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Oh you don't get it? You claim to be a veteran, let's see you defend this:

What do you mean he "claims to be?" Who are you to question him in the first place. And in the second, derogatory terms such as...

Iraq - "raghead," or "haji"
Somalia - "skinnies"
Vietnam - "zippers"
WWII - "krauts" or "japs"

...are terms heard in the military as well. They are frowned upon and highly unauthorized, but they do slip out of mouths occassionally. Something about being shot out upsets people and such terms rise to the surface. If Blackwater personnel used these terms openly (probably did) then they should not have because it only made the military man's job that much harder when engaging the everyday Iraqi citizen.



But even so....what was your point?
 
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