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Thread: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

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    Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    FT.com / US / Politics & Foreign policy - Senators to put brakes on ?cash for clunkers?

    The Obama administration’s oversubscribed “cash for clunkers” scheme looks likely to founder in the Senate this week as bipartisan opposition mounted on Monday to the $2bn extension passed last week in the House of Representatives.

    Republican senators described the scheme, in which car users can take up to $4,500 (€3,170, £2,710) in government vouchers to trade in their vehicles for more fuel efficient ones, as a “boondoggle” – or a waste of time and money – and all but threatened to filibuster the planned extension. This would almost certainly kill prospects of renewing the scheme before the Senate returns from recess in September.

    Republicans also pointed out that the administration had originally estimated the first $1bn in funding would last until November. Instead it is expected to run out in the next few days. “When the administration comes bearing estimates, it’s not a bad idea to look for a second opinion,” said Mitch McConnell, the Senate minority leader. “All the more so if they say they’re in a hurry.”

    Prospects for overcoming a Republican filibuster were also dealt a blow on Monday with objections from a number of leading Democrats. Dianne Feinstein, the senator from California, and Chuck Schumer, the New York senator, both want to raise the fuel efficiency standards of the subsidised vehicles, 250,000 of which have now been funded.

    Meanwhile, Jeff Bingaman, the senator from New Mexico, objected to the diversion of funds from the $6bn allocated to the Department of Energy under the $787bn stimulus programme in February. It is unclear whether the administration could find other sources of cash to extend “cash for clunkers”, or whether it could move ahead without congressional approval.
    1. Wow, even The prescient Prof failed to prophesy this present slip up by the president

    2. Obama's credibility is crashing a blue streak

    3. Just last week, Clunkers cruised thru congress with undiluted democratic endorsement, with a good detachment of red delegates, in addition

    4. What a difference a disastrous weekend makes

    5. Today, Republicans are fit to filibuster

    6. And key dems DiFi, Schumer, Bingaman and McCaskill cavil

    7. Health care is dead

    8. The dems can't even hold a town meeting on the subject, they'll be pelted with rotten vegetables

    9. Most inept political "leadership" in modern American history, makes Carter a Machiavelli

    10. He sends out his Treas Secty and Natl Economic Adviser on MTP and FTN Sunday to RAISE TAXES on the MIDDLE CLASS, has to take it all back within 24 hours---LOLOL!


    The Prof

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Most of the time when Republicans object to a Democratic sponsored program, it is not because they have philosophical differences in the program, it is not because they have a better idea, it is simply because Republicans cannot allow Democrats to get credit for anything that works. That's why Cash for Clunkers is getting stuck, it works and the Right WILL NOT ALLOW Democrats or the president to get credit for it.

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Is Somebody Lying About “Cash for Clunkers”? - Freakonomics Blog - NYTimes.com

    Congress set aside $1 billion to fund the program. If all of that money was going to pay these subsidies, there would be enough money to pay for 250,000 clunkers.

    The program went into place on July 24th. One week later, the program was said to be out of money.


    In 2006, before the current ills of the automakers, the average number of new cars sold in a week in the United States was 125,000.


    So if you believe the numbers, sales involving clunkers as trade-ins last week represented more than two times the weekly sales of new vehicles when the industry was healthy.

    Did car dealers sell 250,000 cars last week? If not, where did the money go?

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Is Somebody Lying About “Cash for Clunkers”? - Freakonomics Blog - NYTimes.com




    Did car dealers sell 250,000 cars last week? If not, where did the money go?
    Yes, they did. That's why the CforC program is working, and providing stimulus. Republicans want to kill it for the same reason, because it's working.

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Yes, they did. That's why the CforC program is working, and providing stimulus. Republicans want to kill it for the same reason, because it's working.
    Auto Sales - Markets Data Center - WSJ.com

    554,527 Cars were sold in July 2009. You are claiming that half of those sales were due to the CARS program?

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Yes, they did. That's why the CforC program is working, and providing stimulus. Republicans want to kill it for the same reason, because it's working.
    Actually, no they didn't. And the actual figures show why the program isn't working.

    Democrats trying for GOP support for clunker funds - Yahoo! News
    The three lawmakers said administration officials told them that 120,000 new vehicle sales had been processed through the program and an additional 100,000 to 130,000 were expected to be processed to reach the $1 billion set aside. Another $2 billion was expected to generate the sale of about 500,000 more vehicles.

    As of Monday afternoon, $563.8 million worth of rebates had been processed through the government program, representing 133,767 new vehicles, according to figures provided by the Department of Transportation.
    120,000 new vehicles sold sounds like a good thing, right? No doubt Ford and Government Motors are thrilled to have the sales.

    Problem is, it's one week's worth of sales. $2 Billion more in the program is one month's worth of sales at best. That's it.

    Then those customers are effectively removed from the new car market for the next three to five years.

    That's the problem with this sort of program--it's not stimulating anything, it's merely pulling tomorrow's sales forward to today. Aggregate sales over time are not increased--which would be the result of true stimulative effect. Today's bump in car sales will be tomorrow's slump in car sales.

    CARS is the crack cocaine of stimulus. Big high, deep crash, lots of damage left behind.

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Actually, no they didn't. And the actual figures show why the program isn't working.

    Democrats trying for GOP support for clunker funds - Yahoo! News
    120,000 new vehicles sold sounds like a good thing, right? No doubt Ford and Government Motors are thrilled to have the sales.

    Problem is, it's one week's worth of sales. $2 Billion more in the program is one month's worth of sales at best. That's it.

    Then those customers are effectively removed from the new car market for the next three to five years.

    That's the problem with this sort of program--it's not stimulating anything, it's merely pulling tomorrow's sales forward to today. Aggregate sales over time are not increased--which would be the result of true stimulative effect. Today's bump in car sales will be tomorrow's slump in car sales.

    CARS is the crack cocaine of stimulus. Big high, deep crash, lots of damage left behind.
    At the moment, the economy needs crack cocaine. Besides, those buyers will be paying off their new cars for 3 or 4 years, who buys cars with cash?

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    At the moment, the economy needs crack cocaine. Besides, those buyers will be paying off their new cars for 3 or 4 years, who buys cars with cash?
    NEEDS crack cocaine? That's wrong. Crack cocaine is dangerous whether we're talking the street drug or economic metaphor--it's a bad idea.

    As for folks buying cars on debt--that's not a good thing either. This country needs to unwind its existing debt, not add to it.

    As for buying cars with cash--I've done that for the past ten years. My last car, my ex wife's car, and the pickup truck I just bought I paid cash. I don't do debt.

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Most of the time when Republicans object to a Democratic sponsored program, it is not because they have philosophical differences in the program, it is not because they have a better idea, it is simply because Republicans cannot allow Democrats to get credit for anything that works. That's why Cash for Clunkers is getting stuck, it works and the Right WILL NOT ALLOW Democrats or the president to get credit for it.
    tell it to difi, schumer, mccaskill, bingaman...

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Actually, no they didn't. And the actual figures show why the program isn't working.

    Democrats trying for GOP support for clunker funds - Yahoo! News
    120,000 new vehicles sold sounds like a good thing, right? No doubt Ford and Government Motors are thrilled to have the sales.

    Problem is, it's one week's worth of sales. $2 Billion more in the program is one month's worth of sales at best. That's it.

    Then those customers are effectively removed from the new car market for the next three to five years.

    That's the problem with this sort of program--it's not stimulating anything, it's merely pulling tomorrow's sales forward to today. Aggregate sales over time are not increased--which would be the result of true stimulative effect. Today's bump in car sales will be tomorrow's slump in car sales.

    CARS is the crack cocaine of stimulus. Big high, deep crash, lots of damage left behind.
    It amazes me how the "NO!" party has to constantly go against anything and everything these days.. and use failed logic and huge assumptions to attempt to prove their point. And on top of that come with zero alternatives to fixing the mess that they got the world into..

    First off, who says that the people using the program would be buying a car in 3 to 5 years any ways? Why this assumption? In dire economic times as we are in now, you do not go out and buy expensive durable goods like a car unless you have too or there is a "good deal". How do I know this? I am from Europe, where "cash for clunkers" has been used by almost every government out there to stimulate the economy in part and it has worked more than it has not. It has also gotten old cars off the roads and improved the average fuel efficiency of the European car park. Without the "cash for clunkers" program the average age of the European car park would be far far higher than it is and have the associated problems with it.

    Secondly the opposition to this is going against the very principle of the Republican party.. I guess the Dems should have called it a tax cut for those that buy a new car.. what would the Republican's have done then? And yes it is exactly the same principle, you put money in the hands of the people to buy stuff that in turn stimulates the economy.. that is EXACTLY what the "NO!" party has been attempting to promote through its negative obstructionist policies by claiming that tax cuts would be better than the Obama stimulus plan..and yet they are against this which is in fact a very targeted "tax cut" for people with a certain type of crappy car in need of replacement.. go figure... I guess it is because that it was not a "Tax cut" for the billionaires so it is not a "real tax cut".
    Last edited by PeteEU; 08-04-09 at 12:34 PM.
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