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Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

Most of the time when Republicans object to a Democratic sponsored program, it is not because they have philosophical differences in the program, it is not because they have a better idea, it is simply because Republicans cannot allow Democrats to get credit for anything that works. That's why Cash for Clunkers is getting stuck, it works and the Right WILL NOT ALLOW Democrats or the president to get credit for it.

Try looking at the facts rather than making them up to suit your leftist socialist agenda and then repeating them as if they were true and came from a reliable source . Calling the Cash for Clunker plot a success is a lie. The plan was to spur the sales of American car company vehicles but the fact is most car sales are going to imports, and the so-called Clunkers are not Clunkers at all they are late model cars that get as few as TWO MPG LESS than the cars they are being traded in on and the amount of tax payer money being spent and the extra cost will never be made up in savings over the life of the cars. So before you continue the Obama lies get the facts, and you and the rest of the Granola Liberals won't look so ignorant.
We are hearing more and more about the White House arm twisting of Liberals forcing them to go along with Socialist ideas and we also are hearing Democrat members of the House and Senate saying they don't give a damn what the people in their districts or States want because they and Obama know what's best because the people are to stupid to decide for themselves.
The fact is the average guy on the street who pays attention and cares about his family's future knows one hell of a lot more than any elected wonk who follows the party line in the usual Liberal go along to get along mode.
 
If all the clunkers are destroyed how are the working poor supposed to get to work? What is going to happen to the price of a used car?
 
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the white house is refusing to release data concerning the clunker program

Obama administration withholds data on clunkers - Yahoo! News

it's probably because 6 in 10 new purchases are not american brands, they're hondas, toyotas and hyundais

also ford, which received no federal bailout, is outperforming naturally govt motors

another problem in the senate is they must pass on the congressional bill as written, to the letter

otherwise, the legislation would have to go to conference, and the house is out on recess...
 
the white house is refusing to release data concerning the clunker program

Obama administration withholds data on clunkers - Yahoo! News

it's probably because 6 in 10 new purchases are not american brands, they're hondas, toyotas and hyundais

also ford, which received no federal bailout, is outperforming naturally govt motors

another problem in the senate is they must pass on the congressional bill as written, to the letter

otherwise, the legislation would have to go to conference, and the house is out on recess...

You may be onto something here. I've wondered the same thing, i.e., what type of vehicles are being purchased.

When I first heard the news that the top selling car was the Ford Focus, I damned near fell off my chair laughing! Not that it was an American car that was being purchased under the program. Lord knows we need that incentive. But because it wasn't GM - the one American auto giant that could really use a boost in car sales.
 
Most of the time when Republicans object to a Democratic sponsored program, it is not because they have philosophical differences in the program, it is not because they have a better idea, it is simply because Republicans cannot allow Democrats to get credit for anything that works. That's why Cash for Clunkers is getting stuck, it works and the Right WILL NOT ALLOW Democrats or the president to get credit for it.
I think you'd be stunned to realize how little interest most of us have in where a good idea comes from. The Dems are philosophically prevented from having very many though. I think this comes from their desire to have power for personal advantage.
 
It amazes me how the "NO!" party has to constantly go against anything and everything these days.. and use failed logic and huge assumptions to attempt to prove their point. And on top of that come with zero alternatives to fixing the mess that they got the world into..

First off, who says that the people using the program would be buying a car in 3 to 5 years any ways? Why this assumption? In dire economic times as we are in now, you do not go out and buy expensive durable goods like a car unless you have too or there is a "good deal". How do I know this? I am from Europe, where "cash for clunkers" has been used by almost every government out there to stimulate the economy in part and it has worked more than it has not. It has also gotten old cars off the roads and improved the average fuel efficiency of the European car park. Without the "cash for clunkers" program the average age of the European car park would be far far higher than it is and have the associated problems with it.

Secondly the opposition to this is going against the very principle of the Republican party.. I guess the Dems should have called it a tax cut for those that buy a new car.. what would the Republican's have done then? And yes it is exactly the same principle, you put money in the hands of the people to buy stuff that in turn stimulates the economy.. that is EXACTLY what the "NO!" party has been attempting to promote through its negative obstructionist policies by claiming that tax cuts would be better than the Obama stimulus plan..and yet they are against this which is in fact a very targeted "tax cut" for people with a certain type of crappy car in need of replacement.. go figure... I guess it is because that it was not a "Tax cut" for the billionaires so it is not a "real tax cut".

If the Libbos would listen to the Republicans, they might not find themselves looking for jobs when their terms expire.
 
Actually, no they didn't. And the actual figures show why the program isn't working.

Democrats trying for GOP support for clunker funds - Yahoo! News
120,000 new vehicles sold sounds like a good thing, right? No doubt Ford and Government Motors are thrilled to have the sales.

The quote says that double that were sold, but only half the sales have been processed

Problem is, it's one week's worth of sales. $2 Billion more in the program is one month's worth of sales at best. That's it.

There was a big spike at the program's onset, but that will settle down. I don't think the market can sustain the increase in sales at this point in time

Then those customers are effectively removed from the new car market for the next three to five years.

Is there really a difference if those who would have bought a car soon anyway buy one now? If there is, why is buying now worse?

That's the problem with this sort of program--it's not stimulating anything, it's merely pulling tomorrow's sales forward to today. Aggregate sales over time are not increased--which would be the result of true stimulative effect. Today's bump in car sales will be tomorrow's slump in car sales.

CARS is the crack cocaine of stimulus. Big high, deep crash, lots of damage left behind.

IMO this is one of the few stimulus programs that actually does represent a stimulus. It's basically a tax break for people who trade in inefficient cars, except that increases the national debt instead of the federal deficit. A tax break would have been better, but the democrats are in control, so what are you gonna do? Just like an analogous tax break, this won't discourage any sales, but should encourage some new sales. If this were a tax break instead of a voucher, would you be in favor of the program?
 
I think you'd be stunned to realize how little interest most of us have in where a good idea comes from. The Dems are philosophically prevented from having very many though. I think this comes from their desire to have power for personal advantage.

You don't think the same of the GOP?
Who are your political heroes?
 
I think you'd be stunned to realize how little interest most of us have in where a good idea comes from. The Dems are philosophically prevented from having very many though. I think this comes from their desire to have power for personal advantage.

Newt Gingrich is on record refusing to allow Democrats to enjoy the credit for any legislation that actually benefits America. The Republican party is VERY concerned that Americans not think of Democrats as a party that has good ideas. That is why they are against legislation that would seem to be a slam-dunk, win-win deal, like Cash for Clunkers.
 
Calling the Cash for Clunker plot a success is a lie. The plan was to spur the sales of American car company vehicles but the fact is most car sales are going to imports, and the so-called Clunkers are not Clunkers at all they are late model cars that get as few as TWO MPG LESS than the cars they are being traded in on and the amount of tax payer money being spent and the extra cost will never be made up in savings over the life of the cars.

I agree with you in part.

I don't think the Cash-for-Clunkers program is a bad program. I think it's a good idea. Maybe it needs to be reworked alittle, but from what I know of it, it's doing what it's suppose to do - get older cars w/low or poor gas milage off the roads and get consumers into newer cars w/better gas milage.

As I understand it, the underlying primus behind the program is to put fuel efficient cars on the roads. I'm all for that because the more fuel efficient vehicle are being driven the less this country's dependency on foreign oil. Such vehicles will also stretch our domestic oil supplies and that's a good thing. The other thing this program is suppose to do - again, this is my understanding of it - is that it gets people buying cars again even if they're purchased at a "discount". I'd rather those cars be all American and mostly GM cars since the auto maker needs all the help it can get since they just came out of banruptcy, but as long as the main two objects of the program are being met I think I can handle that.

Now, the opposition would say it's a bad program because it uses tax dollars which is true. But if the car notes are 4-6 years in duration and most of the cars being sold turn out to be American cars, then it can only go well for the American auto makers because their stock value is likely to go up. And even a small surge in value could bring a good rate of return in earnings. Regardless, the positives here are old cars with poor gas mileage coming off the road, stock prices hopefully improve and consumer spending returns. Would I change a few things about the program? Sure. Absolutely! But on the surface, it's one way that works (according to our European posters who have seen the program in acton) to get people buying cars again.

If this were a tax break instead of a voucher, would you be in favor of the program?
That's a fair question...anyone in opposition of the program care to answer?
 
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Newt Gingrich is on record refusing to allow Democrats to enjoy the credit for any legislation that actually benefits America.
Provide the exact quote, or admit you are lying.

The Republican party is VERY concerned that Americans not think of Democrats as a party that has good ideas.
The Democtrats usually take care of that themselves, as proven by the trouble their 'good idea' legislation has getting through Congress.

That is why they are against legislation that would seem to be a slam-dunk, win-win deal, like Cash for Clunkers.
No... the GOP is against it because its a bad idea.
Never mind that the DEMOCRATS, not the GOP, is holding this up.
 
I don't know what the uproar is all about. If you put brakes on clunkers, then the clunkers become safer, don't they? After all, you don't want clunkers careening down our highways with no brakes, do you?

And the Senate doing all that brake work has to be pretty entertaining too. Can you imagine Harry Reid with a monkey wrench in his hand? Oops, bad imagery. Reid has been throwing monkey wrenches into government machinery for years now. :mrgreen:
 
this thread really wasn't about whether clunkers is a good idea or bad, it was more concerned with the stupid POLITICS underlying it

but since the issue has been raised, and it's a fair question

The prudent Prof opposes this corpus juris

provided:

1. most of the cars purchased---for the express purpose of pumping up the US economy---are foreign brands

2. it demands the destruction of millions of dollars of assett, used cars that could help thousands of americans get to work or shuttle about their families, it looks to skew screwy the pre-owned car market, it appears to be a drag on auto mechanics, etc

3. in the name of environmentalism it looks to scrap tons of landfill, it pours liquid glass into engines, rendering worthless the most recyclable parts of discarded cars, wreckers don't want em, for instance...

4. as law, it's typically clumsy and ad hoc in its conception and execution, like keystone kops

5. also interesting to me is the preference of consumers, when it comes to the few american cars they ARE buying, for ford over govt motors, as the latter is apparently perceived as insolvent in the long run
 
If the Libbos would listen to the Republicans, they might not find themselves looking for jobs when their terms expire.

If the libbos listened to the Republicans, the US would have continued the failed right wing policies of the last decade and be in a far bigger hole than it is.
 
PeteEU,

The GOP cannot stop ANYTHING the Dems want to do, the "Party of No" is a myth perpetuated by those that realize the Dem's aren't capable of accomplishing many of their signature "plans" and are looking to shift the blame.

Hog wash. The "NO" party is destructive, uncreative and frankly backwards thinking. They have not had an original thought in years and when they attempt to come up with something, it is nothing but rewashed reused policies that got the US and world into the mess it is in now.
 
If the libbos listened to the Republicans, the US would have continued the failed right wing policies of the last decade and be in a far bigger hole than it is.
Oh how quaint, someone thinking that GWB was right-wing!
 
It's not a tax cut when you didn't pay that much in taxes in the first place. It becomes a welfare handout with borrowed money that has to be paid back.

What if the tax cut also is paid by borrowed money, as much of the Bush tax cuts was done with? Is that not welfare too then?
 
Hog wash.
The fact that thre GOP cannot stop anything from passing thru Congress is a verifiable fact.

Your describing it as 'hogwash' indicates a refusal to accept reality, instead choosing to cling to petty partisan bigotry.
 
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Oh how quaint, someone thinking that GWB was right-wing!

Considering what party he was in, and how fast that party has disowned him after worshipping the ground he walked on for 8 years, then yes he is a right winger.. and it dont work that the very same Bush backers now use terms like "libertarian" to hide the fact that they support the same basic policies and ideas that got the US into the mess it is in.
 
Hog wash. The "NO" party is destructive, uncreative and frankly backwards thinking. They have not had an original thought in years and when they attempt to come up with something, it is nothing but rewashed reused policies that got the US and world into the mess it is in now.

And all the, "original", thoughts of the SFC party are the worst things that ever happened to this country. They've doubled the unemployment rate and tripled our debt load. I would pefer they do no more thinking in the future.
 
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Considering what party he was in, and how fast that party has disowned him after worshipping the ground he walked on for 8 years, then yes he is a right winger.
This simply illustrates your political ignorance.
Willful or otherwise.
 
Having a "clunker" makes the assumption a fairly safe one. Such cars are high maintenance and are more likely to completely break down in that time frame.

The point remains, bringing tomorrows sales into today does not increase total sales. It merely books the cash sooner.

Stimulus would need to increase total sales. This does not increase total sales. There is ZERO evidence that it will increase total sales. Even in Germany, there is no evidence of that.

ANY stimulus, tax break or programs like this, brings tomorrows sales into today that is the whole freaking point!

We need the sales now, not in 2 to 3 years where hopefully the economy is back on its feet and a some what normal sales balance has been achieved. It is recession economics 101. The whole reason we are in a "recession" is because people stopped spending because of the lack of credit. People are scared and saving up money for the future because they are ... scared. This program, along with many others, is designed to give incentives for people to spend just a bit more and then a bit more and so on, and that way the economy will recover slowly. As long as people do not spend, and save up (the US savings rate has gone from 1% to 7+% in a year.. that is a HUGE jump) and pay of debt, then the economy will not recover.. it is basic economics.

As for you German comment. Cash for clunkers in Germany, Denmark and other nations were designed to yes "stimulate" the car industry but in many cases it was more away to get old cars off the roads and get new more fuel efficient and safer cars on the road. European car buying habits are far far different than American..It is not unusual to have cars that are 10 years old easy and the average age of the European car park is quite high and would be higher if not for these programs.
 
And all the, "original", thoughts of the SFC party are the worst things that ever happened to this country. They've doubled the unemployment rate and tripled our debt load. I would pefer they do no more thinking in the future.

LOL, considering that Obama has been 200 days in office, and unemployment is a lagging statistic, then your whole argument falls to the floor.

As for the debt. When the "NO" party took absolute power in 2000, the US had a surplus. By the end of the "NO" party's power grab in 2008, that debt had gone from 5.7 trillion to 10.7 trillion. And you are claiming that, that debt is now.. 30 trillion? ... guess the official statistics dont agree with you.
 
This simply illustrates your political ignorance.
Willful or otherwise.

No, it illustrates a group of people unwilling to own up to the fact that they failed and backed the wrong man. Instead they cast him out to the dogs, and attempt to "re brand" themselves as "true conservatives" and Bush as some kind of left wing lackey... frankly pathetic and not an uncommon move. The Germans did it after WW2 you know.. no one was associated with Nazi's at all in Germany if you asked the Germans at the time.. non at all.

And no I aint calling the party of "NO" for Nazi's or Bush as Hitler. I am saying that it is a similar experience of denial that the party of "NO" is going through.
 
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