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Thread: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Most of the time when Republicans object to a Democratic sponsored program, it is not because they have philosophical differences in the program, it is not because they have a better idea, it is simply because Republicans cannot allow Democrats to get credit for anything that works. That's why Cash for Clunkers is getting stuck, it works and the Right WILL NOT ALLOW Democrats or the president to get credit for it.
    I think you'd be stunned to realize how little interest most of us have in where a good idea comes from. The Dems are philosophically prevented from having very many though. I think this comes from their desire to have power for personal advantage.
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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    It amazes me how the "NO!" party has to constantly go against anything and everything these days.. and use failed logic and huge assumptions to attempt to prove their point. And on top of that come with zero alternatives to fixing the mess that they got the world into..

    First off, who says that the people using the program would be buying a car in 3 to 5 years any ways? Why this assumption? In dire economic times as we are in now, you do not go out and buy expensive durable goods like a car unless you have too or there is a "good deal". How do I know this? I am from Europe, where "cash for clunkers" has been used by almost every government out there to stimulate the economy in part and it has worked more than it has not. It has also gotten old cars off the roads and improved the average fuel efficiency of the European car park. Without the "cash for clunkers" program the average age of the European car park would be far far higher than it is and have the associated problems with it.

    Secondly the opposition to this is going against the very principle of the Republican party.. I guess the Dems should have called it a tax cut for those that buy a new car.. what would the Republican's have done then? And yes it is exactly the same principle, you put money in the hands of the people to buy stuff that in turn stimulates the economy.. that is EXACTLY what the "NO!" party has been attempting to promote through its negative obstructionist policies by claiming that tax cuts would be better than the Obama stimulus plan..and yet they are against this which is in fact a very targeted "tax cut" for people with a certain type of crappy car in need of replacement.. go figure... I guess it is because that it was not a "Tax cut" for the billionaires so it is not a "real tax cut".
    If the Libbos would listen to the Republicans, they might not find themselves looking for jobs when their terms expire.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Actually, no they didn't. And the actual figures show why the program isn't working.

    Democrats trying for GOP support for clunker funds - Yahoo! News
    120,000 new vehicles sold sounds like a good thing, right? No doubt Ford and Government Motors are thrilled to have the sales.
    The quote says that double that were sold, but only half the sales have been processed

    Problem is, it's one week's worth of sales. $2 Billion more in the program is one month's worth of sales at best. That's it.
    There was a big spike at the program's onset, but that will settle down. I don't think the market can sustain the increase in sales at this point in time

    Then those customers are effectively removed from the new car market for the next three to five years.
    Is there really a difference if those who would have bought a car soon anyway buy one now? If there is, why is buying now worse?

    That's the problem with this sort of program--it's not stimulating anything, it's merely pulling tomorrow's sales forward to today. Aggregate sales over time are not increased--which would be the result of true stimulative effect. Today's bump in car sales will be tomorrow's slump in car sales.

    CARS is the crack cocaine of stimulus. Big high, deep crash, lots of damage left behind.
    IMO this is one of the few stimulus programs that actually does represent a stimulus. It's basically a tax break for people who trade in inefficient cars, except that increases the national debt instead of the federal deficit. A tax break would have been better, but the democrats are in control, so what are you gonna do? Just like an analogous tax break, this won't discourage any sales, but should encourage some new sales. If this were a tax break instead of a voucher, would you be in favor of the program?

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    I think you'd be stunned to realize how little interest most of us have in where a good idea comes from. The Dems are philosophically prevented from having very many though. I think this comes from their desire to have power for personal advantage.
    You don't think the same of the GOP?
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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    I think you'd be stunned to realize how little interest most of us have in where a good idea comes from. The Dems are philosophically prevented from having very many though. I think this comes from their desire to have power for personal advantage.
    Newt Gingrich is on record refusing to allow Democrats to enjoy the credit for any legislation that actually benefits America. The Republican party is VERY concerned that Americans not think of Democrats as a party that has good ideas. That is why they are against legislation that would seem to be a slam-dunk, win-win deal, like Cash for Clunkers.

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    Calling the Cash for Clunker plot a success is a lie. The plan was to spur the sales of American car company vehicles but the fact is most car sales are going to imports, and the so-called Clunkers are not Clunkers at all they are late model cars that get as few as TWO MPG LESS than the cars they are being traded in on and the amount of tax payer money being spent and the extra cost will never be made up in savings over the life of the cars.
    I agree with you in part.

    I don't think the Cash-for-Clunkers program is a bad program. I think it's a good idea. Maybe it needs to be reworked alittle, but from what I know of it, it's doing what it's suppose to do - get older cars w/low or poor gas milage off the roads and get consumers into newer cars w/better gas milage.

    As I understand it, the underlying primus behind the program is to put fuel efficient cars on the roads. I'm all for that because the more fuel efficient vehicle are being driven the less this country's dependency on foreign oil. Such vehicles will also stretch our domestic oil supplies and that's a good thing. The other thing this program is suppose to do - again, this is my understanding of it - is that it gets people buying cars again even if they're purchased at a "discount". I'd rather those cars be all American and mostly GM cars since the auto maker needs all the help it can get since they just came out of banruptcy, but as long as the main two objects of the program are being met I think I can handle that.

    Now, the opposition would say it's a bad program because it uses tax dollars which is true. But if the car notes are 4-6 years in duration and most of the cars being sold turn out to be American cars, then it can only go well for the American auto makers because their stock value is likely to go up. And even a small surge in value could bring a good rate of return in earnings. Regardless, the positives here are old cars with poor gas mileage coming off the road, stock prices hopefully improve and consumer spending returns. Would I change a few things about the program? Sure. Absolutely! But on the surface, it's one way that works (according to our European posters who have seen the program in acton) to get people buying cars again.

    If this were a tax break instead of a voucher, would you be in favor of the program?
    That's a fair question...anyone in opposition of the program care to answer?
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 08-04-09 at 10:43 PM.

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Newt Gingrich is on record refusing to allow Democrats to enjoy the credit for any legislation that actually benefits America.
    Provide the exact quote, or admit you are lying.

    The Republican party is VERY concerned that Americans not think of Democrats as a party that has good ideas.
    The Democtrats usually take care of that themselves, as proven by the trouble their 'good idea' legislation has getting through Congress.

    That is why they are against legislation that would seem to be a slam-dunk, win-win deal, like Cash for Clunkers.
    No... the GOP is against it because its a bad idea.
    Never mind that the DEMOCRATS, not the GOP, is holding this up.

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    I don't know what the uproar is all about. If you put brakes on clunkers, then the clunkers become safer, don't they? After all, you don't want clunkers careening down our highways with no brakes, do you?

    And the Senate doing all that brake work has to be pretty entertaining too. Can you imagine Harry Reid with a monkey wrench in his hand? Oops, bad imagery. Reid has been throwing monkey wrenches into government machinery for years now.
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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    this thread really wasn't about whether clunkers is a good idea or bad, it was more concerned with the stupid POLITICS underlying it

    but since the issue has been raised, and it's a fair question

    The prudent Prof opposes this corpus juris

    provided:

    1. most of the cars purchased---for the express purpose of pumping up the US economy---are foreign brands

    2. it demands the destruction of millions of dollars of assett, used cars that could help thousands of americans get to work or shuttle about their families, it looks to skew screwy the pre-owned car market, it appears to be a drag on auto mechanics, etc

    3. in the name of environmentalism it looks to scrap tons of landfill, it pours liquid glass into engines, rendering worthless the most recyclable parts of discarded cars, wreckers don't want em, for instance...

    4. as law, it's typically clumsy and ad hoc in its conception and execution, like keystone kops

    5. also interesting to me is the preference of consumers, when it comes to the few american cars they ARE buying, for ford over govt motors, as the latter is apparently perceived as insolvent in the long run

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If the Libbos would listen to the Republicans, they might not find themselves looking for jobs when their terms expire.
    If the libbos listened to the Republicans, the US would have continued the failed right wing policies of the last decade and be in a far bigger hole than it is.
    PeteEU

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