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Thread: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    First off, who says that the people using the program would be buying a car in 3 to 5 years any ways? Why this assumption?
    Having a "clunker" makes the assumption a fairly safe one. Such cars are high maintenance and are more likely to completely break down in that time frame.

    The point remains, bringing tomorrows sales into today does not increase total sales. It merely books the cash sooner.

    Stimulus would need to increase total sales. This does not increase total sales. There is ZERO evidence that it will increase total sales. Even in Germany, there is no evidence of that.

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    It amazes me how the "NO!" party has to constantly go against anything and everything these days.
    The ONLY way this (or anything else) can fail to pass Congress is for there to be bipartisan support AGAINST it.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 08-04-09 at 01:17 PM.

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    The program was a bad idea from the start. This thing needs to die and die fast.
    Jackboots always come in matched pairs, a left boot and a right boot.

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    It amazes me how the "NO!" party has to constantly go against anything and everything these days.. and use failed logic and huge assumptions to attempt to prove their point. And on top of that come with zero alternatives to fixing the mess that they got the world into..

    First off, who says that the people using the program would be buying a car in 3 to 5 years any ways? Why this assumption? In dire economic times as we are in now, you do not go out and buy expensive durable goods like a car unless you have too or there is a "good deal". How do I know this? I am from Europe, where "cash for clunkers" has been used by almost every government out there to stimulate the economy in part and it has worked more than it has not. It has also gotten old cars off the roads and improved the average fuel efficiency of the European car park. Without the "cash for clunkers" program the average age of the European car park would be far far higher than it is and have the associated problems with it.

    Secondly the opposition to this is going against the very principle of the Republican party.. I guess the Dems should have called it a tax cut for those that buy a new car.. what would the Republican's have done then? And yes it is exactly the same principle, you put money in the hands of the people to buy stuff that in turn stimulates the economy.. that is EXACTLY what the "NO!" party has been attempting to promote through its negative obstructionist policies by claiming that tax cuts would be better than the Obama stimulus plan..and yet they are against this which is in fact a very targeted "tax cut" for people with a certain type of crappy car in need of replacement.. go figure... I guess it is because that it was not a "Tax cut" for the billionaires so it is not a "real tax cut".
    Cash for Clunkers is a broken window fallacy, the government is effectively destroying vehicles in order to buy new ones because they believe that since money is moving it is positive. That isn't how things really work.

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window]Parable of the broken window - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    Replacing functional cars only because the new cares have a possible (It's a possible not a guaranteed better fuel economy) better fuel economy makes no sense what so ever. In theory, everyone could trade in their econoboxes in for SUV's under this program.
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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Cash for Clunkers is a broken window fallacy, the government is effectively destroying vehicles in order to buy new ones because they believe that since money is moving it is positive. That isn't how things really work.
    The Clunker program is nothing more that a federal subsidy for the auto industry -- that is, you and me paying for other people to get cars.

    In this, its no different that the first-tim ehome buyer's credit, where you get up to $8k to buy a house.

    Every dollar spent on these programs runs the deficit up another dollar.

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The Clunker program is nothing more that a federal subsidy for the auto industry -- that is, you and me paying for other people to get cars.

    In this, its no different that the first-tim ehome buyer's credit, where you get up to $8k to buy a house.

    Every dollar spent on these programs runs the deficit up another dollar.
    Shifting dollars only gives the illusion of stimulus and it never does anything long term. Your right though it's another type of bailout for the auto industry.

    Here is a nifty short essay written about 150ish years ago if you want to read it.
    That Which is Seen, and That Which is Not Seen; by Frederic Bastiat
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Shifting dollars only gives the illusion of stimulus and it never does anything long term. Your right though it's another type of bailout for the auto industry.
    Shifting dollars was the entire basis of the economy under the USSR.

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Shifting dollars was the entire basis of the economy under the USSR.
    As it is in any economy. The US pumps billions into the military and that is nothing but shifting money to others. The US pumps billions into healthcare and that is also nothing but shifting money to others.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    As it is in any economy.
    The US pumps billions into the military and that is nothing but shifting money to others. The US pumps billions into healthcare and that is also nothing but shifting money to others.
    Non-sequitur:
    -These things are not the basis for the economy.
    -These things arent billed as 'economic stimulus".

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    Re: Senate To Put Brakes On Clunkers

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Most of the time when Republicans object to a Democratic sponsored program, it is not because they have philosophical differences in the program, it is not because they have a better idea, it is simply because Republicans cannot allow Democrats to get credit for anything that works.
    That's a meaningless partisan opinion with no factual basis.


    That's why Cash for Clunkers is getting stuck, it works and the Right WILL NOT ALLOW Democrats or the president to get credit for it.
    No Cash for Clunkers doesn't work. The government borrowing billions more from China, on top of the $11 trillion we already owe them and other nations who hold our debt, in order to create a false market in one industry is not a success. It's an illusion. When the money runs out be it now, or two months from now, the auto industry will experience a downturn back to where they were.

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