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Thread: Video: Oregon says no to chemotherapy, offers assisted suicide instead

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    Re: Video: Oregon says no to chemotherapy, offers assisted suicide instead

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Stop the ranting for a minute and think about what you're saying - do you people really think that the government should be required to pay for whatever healthcare people want?
    LMAO! Well, healthcare is being sold as a "right" by the government. So, either you provide everybody the equal right, or it cant be a right at all.

    2nd, if you condone rationing of care, how is that better quality care, which is also a staple of the government run health system.

    The state is not killing this woman, they're simply not paying for chemotherapy. She's free to pay for it herself.
    Perhaps you didnt watch the video? They sent her a letter telling her instead of paying for chemotherapy, they would most certainly pay for physician assisted death. I dont know how more blunt they have to be for you to understand that.

    Requiring that the state pay for chemotherapy even where it's not cost-effective simply because this person wants it is a one-way ticket to bankruptcy.
    Exactly, which makes the entire arguement FOR UHC ridiculous b/c the government cannot match funds with the amount of care needed, if they are gonna proclaim healthcare is a right.

    Just turn to Medicare and Medicaid as examples. Those stellar programs are running in the black arent they?

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    Re: Video: Oregon says no to chemotherapy, offers assisted suicide instead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    Why is it any more disturbing when the government makes health care choices than when some bureaucrat in the private sectore makes them?
    Well for starters, the private sector insurance company cant mandate that I have coverage. They also cant put a gun to my head and tell me if I dont have coverage they will fine me.

    Why do you guys WANT the government to run your lives for you? Can anybody for this please explain that to me? I cant wrap my brain around why someone would want an entity who cant run its other 2 healthcare programs properly, would want to turn over their entire care to that same entity. It defies all rational thought processes.

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    Re: Video: Oregon says no to chemotherapy, offers assisted suicide instead

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    There comes a point in the treatment of cancer where chemo and other options have been exhausted and a new program consisting solely of palliative care is undertaken.
    This is nothing new.
    If, in addition to palliative care, terminal cancer patients in Oregon are now being offered the option of assisted suicide, so much the better. Lucky them.
    A person can never have too many options, especially when suffering from end-stage cancer, a condition that robs one of so much of one's ability to control anything about one's life.
    It would appear the example you speak of above, is not the example provided in the video now is it?

    If the government takes over healthcare, there will be no other options. The government is not about providing people choices. Its about consolodating power so that more and more people are dependent upon it for daily activities.

    Lord Obama already stated to a woman whose mother had a pacemaker put in at 99 years of age, that perhaps taking a pill is the answer instead. The government has to look at every person as a liability and determine each persons worth to the system. You will basically get eugenics of 1920 and 1930s all over again, only this time it will be mandated by law.

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    Re: Video: Oregon says no to chemotherapy, offers assisted suicide instead

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    How is this even remotely different from the system we already have?

    I guarantee you that there are already plenty of procedures or medications that would be helpful to many individuals, but are not covered by Medicare or Medicaid due to their expense. Does that mean that "GovernmentCare" is killing people?
    Kind of blows the entire premise that healthcare is a "right" out of the water doesnt it?

    No, there's absolutely not.

    The government is not deciding what health care you get. It is simply deciding what it will pay for. You are free to get whatever healthcare you want. This is the exact system we already have.

    Why is this so hard for people to understand?
    Um, what is the difference b/w deciding what healthcare you get and deciding what to pay for? If the government is gonna determine what it will pay for, then they are also determining what kind of healthcare you can get through them.

    Are you for UHC? If so, and you proclaim this to be the exact system we already have, why change the system over to 1 that cant be held accountable?

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    Re: Video: Oregon says no to chemotherapy, offers assisted suicide instead

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHat View Post
    Well for starters, the private sector insurance company cant mandate that I have coverage. They also cant put a gun to my head and tell me if I dont have coverage they will fine me.

    Why do you guys WANT the government to run your lives for you? Can anybody for this please explain that to me? I cant wrap my brain around why someone would want an entity who cant run its other 2 healthcare programs properly, would want to turn over their entire care to that same entity. It defies all rational thought processes.
    Because the uninsured health needs of the 40 million Americans who are not insured are draining the resources needed by the rest of us. It would be much, much cheaper to have everyone enrolled in some plan. And despite your ridiculous assertions about government not running programs properly, Medicare and the VA are efficient systems which are much appreciated by those served by them.

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    Re: Video: Oregon says no to chemotherapy, offers assisted suicide instead

    Is there a reason you responded twice?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHat View Post
    LMAO! Well, healthcare is being sold as a "right" by the government. So, either you provide everybody the equal right, or it cant be a right at all.
    I don't think healthcare is a right, so what's your point?

    2nd, if you condone rationing of care, how is that better quality care, which is also a staple of the government run health system.
    Not that I'm a fan of it, but I don't think you understand the proposed system.

    Perhaps you didnt watch the video? They sent her a letter telling her instead of paying for chemotherapy, they would most certainly pay for physician assisted death. I dont know how more blunt they have to be for you to understand that.
    I don't know how much more blunt I have to be - this is no different from any situation today. Medicare will not cover a $2m/year treatment that would keep a comatose person alive. They will cover the cost of short term care and pulling the plug. Is that "killing"?

    Just turn to Medicare and Medicaid as examples. Those stellar programs are running in the black arent they?
    No, they're absolute ****. What's your point?

    Um, what is the difference b/w deciding what healthcare you get and deciding what to pay for? If the government is gonna determine what it will pay for, then they are also determining what kind of healthcare you can get through them.
    Do you not see how "what kind of healthcare you can get through them" is different from "what kind of healthcare you can get"?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Video: Oregon says no to chemotherapy, offers assisted suicide instead

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Because the uninsured health needs of the 40 million Americans who are not insured are draining the resources needed by the rest of us. It would be much, much cheaper to have everyone enrolled in some plan. And despite your ridiculous assertions about government not running programs properly, Medicare and the VA are efficient systems which are much appreciated by those served by them.
    Well false fact #1, is that there are not 40 million uninsured Americans. Why do you guys keep propagandizing that number?

    Medicare isnt run efficiently. Nor is the VA. Medicare isnt even solvent for Christ's sake.

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    Re: Video: Oregon says no to chemotherapy, offers assisted suicide instead

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Is there a reason you responded twice?
    Responded twice to what?



    I don't think healthcare is a right, so what's your point?
    It doesnt matter what you think, what matters is the left is selling healthcare as a right for all Americans to have. That was my point. Operating from that factual premise, the idea that that right will be rationed and tied to monetary funding doesnt make it a right at all.

    Not that I'm a fan of it, but I don't think you understand the proposed system.
    I understand it just fine, thanks.

    I don't know how much more blunt I have to be - this is no different from any situation today. Medicare will not cover a $2m/year treatment that would keep a comatose person alive. They will cover the cost of short term care and pulling the plug. Is that "killing"?
    Well if Medicare is no different then the quasi-private system we have, why do we bother to have it at all???

    No, they're absolute ****. What's your point?
    If you cant figure out my point, then I cant help you.

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    Re: Video: Oregon says no to chemotherapy, offers assisted suicide instead

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHat View Post
    It doesnt matter what you think, what matters is the left is selling healthcare as a right for all Americans to have. That was my point. Operating from that factual premise, the idea that that right will be rationed and tied to monetary funding doesnt make it a right at all.
    So you're arguing that healthcare shouldn't be a right, and are then saying that the dems proposals on this would not make healthcare a right?

    I don't know what you're trying to argue here.

    Well if Medicare is no different then the quasi-private system we have, why do we bother to have it at all???
    What are you talking about?

    The proposed system is not any different from Medicare which is not any different from private health insurance in that there is a cost-benefit analysis made in each situation that will occasionally result in denial of a treatment. The systems are further identical in that you are free to seek that treatment outside of the system if you wish.

    The fact that those two things are the same doesn't mean that the systems are interchangeable.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Video: Oregon says no to chemotherapy, offers assisted suicide instead

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    Assisted suicide became legal in Oregon under the Bush Administraton....
    Assisted suicide became legal in Oregon as the result of a statewide ballot proposition that the federal government had no jurisdiction over.

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