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Thread: Colin Powell on Henry Gates: He should've Chilled Out

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    Re: Colin Powell on Henry Gates: He should've Chilled Out

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    By whose estimation? By what objective measure is there "little or no rationale"?

    Everything that you've cited here summarizes thus: If blacks and minorities perceive they are being discriminated against, they are being discriminated against. The putatively aggrieved individual has total credibility, and the police office enjoys zero credibility, but there is no rational support offered for either position.

    Again: What are the empirical indicators of racial discrimination?
    I'll answer this and your other post after I go running.
    “Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure...than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.”
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    Re: Colin Powell on Henry Gates: He should've Chilled Out

    Listen, Gates got treated no differently than a white guy in the same situation would have been treated.

    I've got a fairly similar story myself.

    I was doing a painting job for a friend, where I was painting his condo for him (which was on the ground level). I was taking a little break so I stepped out onto the patio to grab a smoke and some fresh air and apparently the neighbor saw me out of her window and called the police because she didn't recognize me and I guess that automatically means I'm a psychotic killer.

    After a few minutes I went back inside and sat down for a minute. While I was sitting down, the patio door opened and I was looking at a cop.

    I said "Hello?"

    He jumped a bit and asked "Do you live here?"

    I said "No, I'm actu-" and before I could finish saying I was painting the place for my friend who lives here, he pulled his gun, pointed it at me and and screamed "Get on the ground!"

    I raised my hands and got on my face on the floor. He then jumped on my neck (as cops are wont to do) and started cuffing me while asking me what I was doing there, and I told him.

    It started to dawn on him what the smell was and that I was in paint covered overalls.


    In the end, I was let go, but had I decided to throw a tantrum, my ass would have been hauled in, or even shot.

    It was not about race. Blacks might think they treated differently, but I've been treated as bad or worse than many of the incidents I read about.

    **** happens. It's not a reason to throw a tantrum.

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    Re: Colin Powell on Henry Gates: He should've Chilled Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    Testimony from personal experience is evidence.
    It is? Of what is it evidence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    Partially true but also flawed. With those kinds of numbers, it is an extremely tenuous claim to say that all assumed they were being racially profiled before looking to other conclusions.
    If I were making that assumption, you would have a point. However, I did not make that assumption, nor did I even imply that assumption--it's not necessary for my question to be raised. The data is quite explicit that it is a compilation of people's perceptions--how they believe they themselves are being treated; it is an imputation of motive by the polled person to the police, and we are given no objective non-self-referential data with which to evaluate the credibility of the respondents claims. They might be right; they might not be right--we cannot say because, based on the articles presented, we simply do not know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    That's assuming that somehow African-Americans think as a collective group. They don't. Being black is something you are born with, and bears absolutely nothing to who you are. So if a huge amount are agreeing that they have been treated unfairly in numerous polls(I can bring out more if you would like) than that speaks for itself.
    No, that assumption is also not required--no collective groupthink is required or even implied.

    Moreover, it does not matter how many polls or reams of data you bring out, because trundling out a laundry list of people who say they have been unfairly treated, with no objective supporting data to validate their perceptions, still does not speak to my question:

    How does one know one is the victim of discrimination? What are the empirical indicators of racial discrimination?

    Or, to put it another way, if we assume that we will be discriminated against by the police, does that assumption raise the likelihood we will perceive interactions with the police as having been instances of discrimination?

    Or are you arguing that discrimination exists merely because people claim to have been discriminated against?

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    Re: Colin Powell on Henry Gates: He should've Chilled Out

    I would have voted for Colin Powell over McCain OR Obama.

    Now THERE is a man who has earned and deserves the respect of the entire country.

    I firmly believe that his principles weighed on his conscience so much he had to leave the Bush administration.

    Sure, he pissed me off in his lap-dog attempt to sell America Bush's lop-sided Iraqi agenda. But I could tell even then he was reading from the script and was "taking one for the team" in good faith. But he realized, more and more, what he was doing, and where it was going, and Mr. Good-Judgement (coupled with honorable conscience,) kicked in and he gracefully withdrew.
    In his heart of hearts, I believe that, initially, he thought what he was doing was right, selling Bush's propaganda. But he also realized that Bush was using his (Powell's) credibility to sell his snake oil.

    Even being a major player in the GOP he stood firm on his principle and his sincere concern for our nation and rebuked the GOP candidate. That took balls. How quick our so called "patriots" turned on this war hero when he jumped partisan ship, but I digress. (The beat goes on. )

    I don't think there is a racist bone in Powell's body. He is a realist, who realized the error of his ways and changed them. And I admire the man very much.

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
    Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy" until you can find a gun.

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    Re: Colin Powell on Henry Gates: He should've Chilled Out

    Often in life everyone is an asshole, indeed more often than not.

    So the police officer was just doing his job and Gates should not have turned the entire incident into another Selma March, he should have just said here is the proof I live here and thank you officer for protecting my property, but when Gates got all hot headed the cop should have respected that line of arrest.

    Arrest is a serious thing; a very significant power to use, one should not be arrested simply for being an asshole.

    If this were the case I would have spent my entire life in prison.

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    Re: Colin Powell on Henry Gates: He should've Chilled Out

    As for Powell, he Uncle Tomed his way to success.

    His entire career, both military and political, was a simple matter of just telling the man above him what they wanted to hear, even when he disagreed profoundly, always expressed after the fact, when it no longer mattered.

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    Re: Colin Powell on Henry Gates: He should've Chilled Out

    Quote Originally Posted by JW Frogen View Post
    As for Powell, he Uncle Tomed his way to success.

    His entire career, both military and political, was a simple matter of just telling the man above him what they wanted to hear, even when he disagreed profoundly, always expressed after the fact, when it no longer mattered.
    You could never convince me of that in a million years.

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
    Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy" until you can find a gun.

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    Re: Colin Powell on Henry Gates: He should've Chilled Out

    Quote Originally Posted by JW Frogen View Post
    As for Powell, he Uncle Tomed his way to success.

    His entire career, both military and political, was a simple matter of just telling the man above him what they wanted to hear, even when he disagreed profoundly, always expressed after the fact, when it no longer mattered.
    A somewhat astute analysis, unfortunately.

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    Re: Colin Powell on Henry Gates: He should've Chilled Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    You could never convince me of that in a million years.

    Powell's response before the UN when they told him his WMD presentation was full of crap?

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    Re: Colin Powell on Henry Gates: He should've Chilled Out

    Quote Originally Posted by JW Frogen View Post
    Powell's response before the UN when they told him his WMD presentation was full of crap?
    Powell was pressured by every single person in the White House and the country to make that speech? If he hadn't made the speech, you'd be raving that it was anti-american and unpatriotic. Not to mention the fact Powell was misled about the rationale to go to war, Tenet giving him evidence that had been flagged by analysts though not making Powell aware of that.

    Your notionthat Powell is some careerist that just panders to his superiors is simply false
    “Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure...than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.”
    -TR

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