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Thread: Pelosi: Health bill is 'stimulus package'

  1. #21
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    Re: Pelosi: Health bill is 'stimulus package'

    Quote Originally Posted by formerroadie View Post
    Oh lord, you couldn't be more wrong. I suppose you are listening to the CBO and Lewin Group again. You go ahead and be mislead. All the rest of us will fight for what is best for this country and counter the misinformation of the right.
    You are claiming the Congressional Budget Office disseminates "misinformation of the right"?

    You really want to run with that line of...."thought"?

  2. #22
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    Re: Pelosi: Health bill is 'stimulus package'

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    You are claiming the Congressional Budget Office disseminates "misinformation of the right"?

    You really want to run with that line of...."thought"?
    Yes, I am. Here:

    Paul A. London: CBO Is Wrong About Health Care Costs

    The Congressional Budget Office made Republicans cheer on July 16 when it said that health care reform proposals will raise, not lower, costs. The CBO economists are wrong. In the 1970s and '80s, economists thought inflation in many industries was an immutable fact, as they think it is in health care today. Early in the Clinton Administration, they still thought inflation would come roaring back if Democratic programs brought unemployment to below six percent. Instead Clinton drove joblessness below four percent with no inflation. Since then the costs of many goods and services have continued to fall: Look at computers, flat panel TVs, telephone calls, the cost to ship goods, clothing, cars, appliances and housing if properly adjusted for quality improvements -- all are less expensive than they used to be. Products and services that at one time were available only to the well-to-do are now within the reach of almost every American household because costs have fallen.

    Costs will fall if health care is reformed. Think about it. Wal-Mart's pharmacies in September 2006 began to offer a long list of generic drugs for $4 per month, 50 percent less than it had been charging before. Its competitors like Target and the Kroger grocery chains are copying Wal-Mart and more will be forced to do so. The costs of generic drugs are already coming down and they will come down further, eventually cutting health costs by tens of billions of dollars. Brand name drugs, unless they are very special, will have to be priced to compete with lower cost and effective generics. Medicare and Medicaid, doctors and insurance companies can promote and speed this process if they are pushed by reform to pay more attention to costs.

    Computerization of medical records also will bring down health care costs sharply over time. Pharmacists waste hours every day calling doctors about scribbled prescriptions, costs that will come down as computers replace phone calls and faxes. Doctors still play "telephone tag," calling each other by phone -- 1920s technology -- that should have been largely replaced by computers two decades ago. Over 50 percent of the cost of medical research, I have been told, is in collecting and making sense out of paper records. Computerization of records will cut research costs enormously.

    The health care supply chain for paper goods, cleaning supplies, masks, cuffs, and other common items is horrendously expensive. Reform that makes doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies compete for patients will increase pressure to cut costs in these areas, as was the case when competition was forced on the telephone industry.

    So why is CBO so off the mark? Its economists look at patterns of numbers from the past and project them into the future. It is really anti-economics. The central insight of the great economists starting with Adam Smith is that competition creates a dynamic that break down the costly patterns of the past. Health insurance exchanges and computerized records will increase competition in health care and lower costs. That is what happened in other American industries when competition increased, and it will happen in health care.
    It's time for a revolution in our country. Not a revolution forged with guns and bombs but a revolution forged of compassion and altruism. A revolution that extends a hand to those who don't have and who cannot. A revolution that makes Health Care available to all those in the US.

  3. #23
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    Re: Pelosi: Health bill is 'stimulus package'

    Quote Originally Posted by formerroadie View Post
    Oh lord, you couldn't be more wrong. I suppose you are listening to the CBO and Lewin Group again. You go ahead and be mislead. All the rest of us will fight for what is best for this country and counter the misinformation of the right.
    Can you actually debate with me instead of just going for these personal attacks? I know people like you love to portray the capitalists as greedy and evil, but believe me, it's more than practical.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  4. #24
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    Re: Pelosi: Health bill is 'stimulus package'

    Quote Originally Posted by formerroadie View Post
    So because you posted that they were wrong once, they must now always be wrong?

    Answer me this question: when has the government ever made anything cheaper? Anything at all.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Pelosi: Health bill is 'stimulus package'

    Quote Originally Posted by formerroadie View Post
    Puppy dog, if you're going to say the CBO is a right-wing partisan hack you might want to do a wee bit more than just vomit up a convenient link arguing their estimates.

    For one thing, London says the CBO is wrong, not partisan--he posits a structural defect in their analyses, not political bias.

    For another thing, London's own take on health care is amatuerish--are you ever going to respond to my dissection of his essay?

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-par...post1058159729

    (you ignored it in the other thread you regurgitated this bit of non-information, as well)
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-par...post1058159742

    So you fail on two counts:

    1. Paul London's article does not back up your claim that the CBO is a right-wing font of misinformation
    2. Paul London's analysis is more off base than the CBO's.

    Back to you.....

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    Re: Pelosi: Health bill is 'stimulus package'

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Trashing our troops? Please, can you try not making things up?
    Amazing under Bush and Cheney our troops had to beg for proper body armor yet George could manage to scrap up millions for his library within months of being ousted....millions for crayons? But he couldn't manage to scrap up a dime too properly arm our troops and their transports.

    Yes we all know what was really important to Georgie boy....

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    Re: Pelosi: Health bill is 'stimulus package'

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    Amazing under Bush and Cheney our troops had to beg for proper body armor yet George could manage to scrap up millions for his library within months of being ousted.
    His library was paid for in the Federal budget?

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    Re: Pelosi: Health bill is 'stimulus package'

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    His library was paid for in the Federal budget?
    No it is funded by his friends donations...the same friends who thought it wasn't worthwhile to donate to our troops for proper body armor.

    They have their priorities I guess...

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    Re: Pelosi: Health bill is 'stimulus package'

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    No it is funded by his friends donations...the same friends who thought it wasn't worthwhile to donate to our troops for proper body armor.
    The defense budget is from charitable donations? Wow....who knew?

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    Re: Pelosi: Health bill is 'stimulus package'

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    The defense budget is from charitable donations? Wow....who knew?
    Hey George was the "Decider in Cheif" he could have decided to use some of those donations to help the troops...all it would have taken was heart and balls...Sad he's always had a shortage of both.

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