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Trump Pick Monica Crowley Plagiarized Parts of Her Ph.D. Dissertation

I'd like to see her removed from the job and then have the University revoke her degree.

On a tangent what is up with all these universities getting proof that a person plagiarized their college work and then allowing the individuals to keep their degrees? This looks bad for the schools.

Are you serious? Can't be? This happens all the time, especially today.


Tim-
 
Well, not so fast, is what I say. Improper citation/attribution is a very COMMON mistake by grad students today and also in the past, but more so today. I read the article and to me it sounds like a fabricated outrage story that at the time meant nothing to her grade nor her credibility. Today they have software that can catch it better, but in the past not so much. I'll chalk this one up to honest error, unless someone can prove to me with facts that Crowley deliberately plagiarized her thesis.


Tim-

LOL what proof could there possibly be beyond the evidence of the crime? Are you holding on to doubt until they get a *search warrant* to scour her personal journal for a signed confession?

It is fairly obvious that you have not developed a thesis before. It is not possible to unintentionally have PASSAGES from other works that are unsourced.
 
Its not the the concept of education that is attacked, it is the concept of what your side, the left, has made out of the concept. Its no longer about learning, true science, critical, independent thought and reasoning...

Yes, education is still about those things, despite your desperate need to portray it otherwise. Just saying something is so won't magically make it so.
to your side it is all about falling in line, being with the in crowd of feigned "consensus". Science is not based on voting in a politically correct manner, its based on continuous systematic observation, measurement, reasonable conjecture and experiment...this the formulation, testing and modification of hypotheses.

Strawman. The left isn't claiming that science isn't based on those things.

Some education in logic would really help you make better (and more intellectually honest) points.

Sorry, but unsupported bare assertions don't make for a cogent argument.
 
Joe Biden did the same thing.

Funny enough, I was just reading in this other thread how lefties just scream, "you did it too" as shown here:

I love how, when it is pointed out that the idiots on the left are being assholes, all the left can do is scream "you did it too!" Who cares who also did it, this prick was a jerk and deserves to have it pointed out. Just because someone else did it too doesn't mean it's okay.



Yup, both side play the "you did it too" game. Just because Joe Biden might have done something doesn't mean it's okay for someone else to do it, right Grim?
 
LOL what proof could there possibly be beyond the evidence of the crime? Are you holding on to doubt until they get a *search warrant* to scour her personal journal for a signed confession?

It is fairly obvious that you have not developed a thesis before. It is not possible to unintentionally have PASSAGES from other works that are unsourced.

Circular logic much? How in the world can you prove intention? Are you suggesting that students fail to provide proper citation and attribution when writing papers, even Ph.D. Thesis'... Are you smoking something because I want some toot sweet! My God, it happens WAAAYYYYY more than you obviously think. Hell even I've done it, and yes it was a mistake, but luckily for me it was brought to my attention prior to my final submission.. Geeze!


Tim-
 
And this makes intelectualI dishonesty okay because...

where is the howling of 8 years of intellectual dishonest.
I didn't hear any howling about this during the campaign either.

liberal hypocrisy at it's finest.
 
Are you serious? Can't be? This happens all the time, especially today.


Tim-
Right. Bad behavior happens all the time. We're constantly told that "plagiarism is one of the worst academic sins you can commit" and yet...happens all the time and a shrug.

Must not be a big deal at elite universities. Makes me regret turning down going to USC and going to a state school instead if I knew I could just cheat my way to a degree...
 
Well, not so fast, is what I say. Improper citation/attribution is a very COMMON mistake by grad students today and also in the past, but more so today. I read the article and to me it sounds like a fabricated outrage story that at the time meant nothing to her grade nor her credibility. Today they have software that can catch it better, but in the past not so much. I'll chalk this one up to honest error, unless someone can prove to me with facts that Crowley deliberately plagiarized her thesis.


Tim-

Anyone who can read the many examples in the article cited and believe all that flagrant copying was just "honest error" has a capacity to disregard evidence which rivals that of an O.J. juror.

After reading the passages closely, I think Crowley should have been disqualified just for the God-awful quality of her writing. Sounds like the sort of slack, wordy hash I'd expect to find in some local school board document.
 
Right. Bad behavior happens all the time. We're constantly told that "plagiarism is one of the worst academic sins you can commit" and yet...happens all the time and a shrug.

Must not be a big deal at elite universities. Makes me regret turning down going to USC and going to a state school instead if I knew I could just cheat my way to a degree...

Cheating is not the same thing as making a mistake. My particular mistake was getting the quotes right, but failing to provide footnotes with citation. This is what Crowley did to my understanding, there isn't enough detail to know one way or the other. Look, she might have done it on purpose but my argument is that one, how can you know, and two, the type of mistake she made is common. I work for a mutli-billion dollar company who's sole job is to lead a team that gathers statistics, analyze the data, find correlations, and adjust variables to measure them correctly. I make mistakes sometimes!

Tim-
 
Okay, so I read the full article, yeah I agree, that is not making a mistake, that is cheating. MY bad, I apologize but my argument is correct, if not in proper context here.


Tim-
 
I wonder what the agruments will be to excuse plagiarism...

If proven, I don't like it. Frankly I don't know much about Crowley.
 
Anyone who can read the many examples in the article cited and believe all that flagrant copying was just "honest error" has a capacity to disregard evidence which rivals that of an O.J. juror.

After reading the passages closely, I think Crowley should have been disqualified just for the God-awful quality of her writing. Sounds like the sort of slack, wordy hash I'd expect to find in some local school board document.

I am not defending Monica Crowley and I have not read her dissertation or anything else she has written, so I honestly don't know if the passages classify as plagiarism or not. I certainly do not condone plagiarism.

But let me play devil's advocate Are the talking points and phrases lifted and posted word for word that we see members repeating again and again and again plagiarism? They don't source where they got it or admit they are repeating other people's words.

If I repeat the well known and oft quoted line from Adam Smith's work: "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest." without specifically attributing it to Adam Smith, have I plagiarized? Or is the quotation so well known that it doesn't need notation. . .sort of like quoting a line for effect "We hold these truths to be self evident. . ." or "When in the course of current events, it becomes necessary. . ."

In a thread I started recently, in the OP I provided three analogies and, while I rewrote them into my own words, I prefaced them with the disclaimer that they didn't originate with me. And one of them did contain a phrase that is oft repeated and I was accused by another member of plagiarizing it. Was my disclaimer sufficient to avoid being a plagiarizer?

I write and teach adult curriculum and do a LOT of research of other people's work, making notes as I go, and many of these notes include the other's words verbatim. And sometimes when I am hurriedly preparing a lesson, I don't always take the time to note what is somebody elses words and what is mine. Then months later when I am rewriting those notes into publishable form, I can't always remember what is somebody else's words and what is mine. So I have to go back and diligently check every line to be sure I am not using somebody else's words verbatim and in truth, I find some lines in my work that are very similar to what somebody else wrote--somebody that I didn't use as a source at the time.

And is it possible that one or more of those lines could make it into a completed manuscript without being notated or included in my bibliography? It is a real fear of mine. Would it be plagiarism? Certainly not intentionally but I could see myself being accused if by some weird stroke of fate I found myself in a high profile position in which every aspect of my life was being scrutinized in an effort to disqualify me.

So what is the deal with Monica? No clue. She is a very competent commentator when I have watched her in that role. But did she plagiarize? I suspect she might have. Did she intend to? I doubt that she did.
 
Circular logic much? How in the world can you prove intention? Are you suggesting that students fail to provide proper citation and attribution when writing papers, even Ph.D. Thesis'... Are you smoking something because I want some toot sweet! My God, it happens WAAAYYYYY more than you obviously think. Hell even I've done it, and yes it was a mistake, but luckily for me it was brought to my attention prior to my final submission.. Geeze!


Tim-

(Edit) Responded before is saw this:

Okay, so I read the full article, yeah I agree, that is not making a mistake, that is cheating. MY bad, I apologize but my argument is correct, if not in proper context here.


Tim-

Thank you for acknowledging that.
 
where is the howling of 8 years of intellectual dishonest.
I didn't hear any howling about this during the campaign either.

liberal hypocrisy at it's finest.

The best you guys got is the "you can keep your doctor." Well, guess what, i kept my doctor! Lol!

What do we have on Trump? Well there's the dozens of examples of him brazenly contradicting himself about the Iraq war, AGW, imitating the reporter, etc. etc.
 
This also seems like a rather embarrassing fact for the professors on her Dissertation Committee, don't you think?
 
Jeez!! But I guess it's better than getting your degree from a diploma mill? Or is it. At least, when you got it from a diploma mill, you just sent them the money and got your degree, and you didn't end up stealing other peoples' intellectual property.

Monica Crowley Plagiarized Parts of Her Ph.D. Dissertation - POLITICO Magazine

When you watch and listen to the Right talk during the confirmation hearings, you get the idea that most of those people faked their degrees and plagiarized their papers. Not a very sharp shed full of tools that bunch.
 
When you watch and listen to the Right talk during the confirmation hearings, you get the idea that most of those people faked their degrees and plagiarized their papers. Not a very sharp shed full of tools that bunch.

For sure about Trey Gowdy looked like an idiot. Upon discovering that Jared Kushner went to law school but never actually passed any bar exams I looked into Lindsey Graham. He's another clownish oaf who appears to have graduated from law school without actually passing a bar exam.

How many of these jokes are there? Who would bother going to law school and then not passing a bar exam? WTHELL?
 
Funny enough, I was just reading in this other thread how lefties just scream, "you did it too" as shown here:





Yup, both side play the "you did it too" game. Just because Joe Biden might have done something doesn't mean it's okay for someone else to do it, right Grim?



It depends on the context. if you are using it to justify crowley's plagarism, then you are playing that game. If you are simply pointing out, that this whole meltdown over crowley's plagarism isn't really an issue to those who brought it up.... well then.
 
The best you guys got is the "you can keep your doctor." Well, guess what, i kept my doctor! Lol!

What do we have on Trump? Well there's the dozens of examples of him brazenly contradicting himself about the Iraq war, AGW, imitating the reporter, etc. etc.

Nope there was a lot more than that but myopic is myopic.
anecdotal evidence isn't evidence.
 
Cool. show me how you blew up when sen John walsh plagarized so bad his masters degree was revoked.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walsh_(U.S._politician)


just one thread, showing the ridicule and outrage you all are showing here.

Was John Walsh's PhD in International Relations used as a credential for his position as Deputy National Security Advisor for Strategic Communications and Speechwriting Designate?

(FYI, the answer is no)

Was John Walsh found to plagiarize not once, not twice, but fifty times in a book he wrote, including copying passages from wikipedia?

(FYI, the answer is no)

Did i even know who this guy is that you're dishonestly diverting the conversation toward?

No.
 
It depends on the context. if you are using it to justify crowley's plagarism, then you are playing that game. If you are simply pointing out, that this whole meltdown over crowley's plagarism isn't really an issue to those who brought it up.... well then.

And yet all those who cried about Biden's speech don't seem to care when the right re-uses speech (Melania, President Bush 2, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.). Seems that's the hypocrisy here since those two situations are actually equivalent, unlike this dishonest bull**** between giving a speech and committing academic fraud.
 
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