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Thread: Trump Pick Monica Crowley Plagiarized Parts of Her Ph.D. Dissertation

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    Re: Trump Pick Monica Crowley Plagiarized Parts of Her Ph.D. Dissertation

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Jeez!! But I guess it's better than getting your degree from a diploma mill? Or is it. At least, when you got it from a diploma mill, you just sent them the money and got your degree, and you didn't end up stealing other peoples' intellectual property.

    Monica Crowley Plagiarized Parts of Her Ph.D. Dissertation - POLITICO Magazine
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    Re: Trump Pick Monica Crowley Plagiarized Parts of Her Ph.D. Dissertation

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Jeez!! But I guess it's better than getting your degree from a diploma mill? Or is it. At least, when you got it from a diploma mill, you just sent them the money and got your degree, and you didn't end up stealing other peoples' intellectual property.

    Monica Crowley Plagiarized Parts of Her Ph.D. Dissertation - POLITICO Magazine
    Don't you know plagiarism doesn't matter anymore? What do you think all that fake news was?
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    Re: Trump Pick Monica Crowley Plagiarized Parts of Her Ph.D. Dissertation

    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    LOL what proof could there possibly be beyond the evidence of the crime? Are you holding on to doubt until they get a *search warrant* to scour her personal journal for a signed confession?

    It is fairly obvious that you have not developed a thesis before. It is not possible to unintentionally have PASSAGES from other works that are unsourced.
    Circular logic much? How in the world can you prove intention? Are you suggesting that students fail to provide proper citation and attribution when writing papers, even Ph.D. Thesis'... Are you smoking something because I want some toot sweet! My God, it happens WAAAYYYYY more than you obviously think. Hell even I've done it, and yes it was a mistake, but luckily for me it was brought to my attention prior to my final submission.. Geeze!


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    Re: Trump Pick Monica Crowley Plagiarized Parts of Her Ph.D. Dissertation

    Quote Originally Posted by CMPancake View Post
    And this makes intelectualI dishonesty okay because...
    where is the howling of 8 years of intellectual dishonest.
    I didn't hear any howling about this during the campaign either.

    liberal hypocrisy at it's finest.

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    Re: Trump Pick Monica Crowley Plagiarized Parts of Her Ph.D. Dissertation

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Are you serious? Can't be? This happens all the time, especially today.


    Tim-
    Right. Bad behavior happens all the time. We're constantly told that "plagiarism is one of the worst academic sins you can commit" and yet...happens all the time and a shrug.

    Must not be a big deal at elite universities. Makes me regret turning down going to USC and going to a state school instead if I knew I could just cheat my way to a degree...

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    Re: Trump Pick Monica Crowley Plagiarized Parts of Her Ph.D. Dissertation

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Well, not so fast, is what I say. Improper citation/attribution is a very COMMON mistake by grad students today and also in the past, but more so today. I read the article and to me it sounds like a fabricated outrage story that at the time meant nothing to her grade nor her credibility. Today they have software that can catch it better, but in the past not so much. I'll chalk this one up to honest error, unless someone can prove to me with facts that Crowley deliberately plagiarized her thesis.


    Tim-
    Anyone who can read the many examples in the article cited and believe all that flagrant copying was just "honest error" has a capacity to disregard evidence which rivals that of an O.J. juror.

    After reading the passages closely, I think Crowley should have been disqualified just for the God-awful quality of her writing. Sounds like the sort of slack, wordy hash I'd expect to find in some local school board document.

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    Re: Trump Pick Monica Crowley Plagiarized Parts of Her Ph.D. Dissertation

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    Right. Bad behavior happens all the time. We're constantly told that "plagiarism is one of the worst academic sins you can commit" and yet...happens all the time and a shrug.

    Must not be a big deal at elite universities. Makes me regret turning down going to USC and going to a state school instead if I knew I could just cheat my way to a degree...
    Cheating is not the same thing as making a mistake. My particular mistake was getting the quotes right, but failing to provide footnotes with citation. This is what Crowley did to my understanding, there isn't enough detail to know one way or the other. Look, she might have done it on purpose but my argument is that one, how can you know, and two, the type of mistake she made is common. I work for a mutli-billion dollar company who's sole job is to lead a team that gathers statistics, analyze the data, find correlations, and adjust variables to measure them correctly. I make mistakes sometimes!

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    Re: Trump Pick Monica Crowley Plagiarized Parts of Her Ph.D. Dissertation

    Okay, so I read the full article, yeah I agree, that is not making a mistake, that is cheating. MY bad, I apologize but my argument is correct, if not in proper context here.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
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    Re: Trump Pick Monica Crowley Plagiarized Parts of Her Ph.D. Dissertation

    Quote Originally Posted by CMPancake View Post
    I wonder what the agruments will be to excuse plagiarism...
    If proven, I don't like it. Frankly I don't know much about Crowley.
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    Re: Trump Pick Monica Crowley Plagiarized Parts of Her Ph.D. Dissertation

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Anyone who can read the many examples in the article cited and believe all that flagrant copying was just "honest error" has a capacity to disregard evidence which rivals that of an O.J. juror.

    After reading the passages closely, I think Crowley should have been disqualified just for the God-awful quality of her writing. Sounds like the sort of slack, wordy hash I'd expect to find in some local school board document.
    I am not defending Monica Crowley and I have not read her dissertation or anything else she has written, so I honestly don't know if the passages classify as plagiarism or not. I certainly do not condone plagiarism.

    But let me play devil's advocate Are the talking points and phrases lifted and posted word for word that we see members repeating again and again and again plagiarism? They don't source where they got it or admit they are repeating other people's words.

    If I repeat the well known and oft quoted line from Adam Smith's work: "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest." without specifically attributing it to Adam Smith, have I plagiarized? Or is the quotation so well known that it doesn't need notation. . .sort of like quoting a line for effect "We hold these truths to be self evident. . ." or "When in the course of current events, it becomes necessary. . ."

    In a thread I started recently, in the OP I provided three analogies and, while I rewrote them into my own words, I prefaced them with the disclaimer that they didn't originate with me. And one of them did contain a phrase that is oft repeated and I was accused by another member of plagiarizing it. Was my disclaimer sufficient to avoid being a plagiarizer?

    I write and teach adult curriculum and do a LOT of research of other people's work, making notes as I go, and many of these notes include the other's words verbatim. And sometimes when I am hurriedly preparing a lesson, I don't always take the time to note what is somebody elses words and what is mine. Then months later when I am rewriting those notes into publishable form, I can't always remember what is somebody else's words and what is mine. So I have to go back and diligently check every line to be sure I am not using somebody else's words verbatim and in truth, I find some lines in my work that are very similar to what somebody else wrote--somebody that I didn't use as a source at the time.

    And is it possible that one or more of those lines could make it into a completed manuscript without being notated or included in my bibliography? It is a real fear of mine. Would it be plagiarism? Certainly not intentionally but I could see myself being accused if by some weird stroke of fate I found myself in a high profile position in which every aspect of my life was being scrutinized in an effort to disqualify me.

    So what is the deal with Monica? No clue. She is a very competent commentator when I have watched her in that role. But did she plagiarize? I suspect she might have. Did she intend to? I doubt that she did.
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