Trump says he would require schools to teach patriotism

In addition to teaching patriotism in schools, he called for students to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

“We will stop apologizing for America, and we will start celebrating America,” he said. “We will be united by our common cultures, values, and principles, becoming one American nation, one country under the one constitution, saluting one American flag—always saluting.”

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Patriotism doesn't mean blind obedience. It means standing up for the Constitution. It doesn't mean rewriting history to gloss over the bad chapters. It means loving your country enough to recognize when we as a nation have done wrong and try not to do it again. It doesn't mean only reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. It's living the Pledge, especially the "Liberty and Justice for all" part of it. In that context, patriotism is a very good thing. Taken too far, it becomes the kind of Fascism that was promoted by Adolf Hitler. Yes, there is a line, and it must never be crossed, for when it is, then patriotism becomes hollow, and not worth the empty words being parroted. When that happens, you are no longer patriotic, but have betrayed the very principles that are the reasons for patriotism in the first place.

I, for one, love my country, and will stand up for the rights of others to criticize it's faults, for it is that very criticism that has kept us from going down a very dark path where freedom and justice no longer exist. Yes, some of the criticism against America I do not like, and I feel that some of the criticism, such as flag burning, is indecent to me. But I do not ever want to forget dark chapters in our history, such as slavery and later lynchings of African Americans, extermination of Native Americans, internment of Japanese citizens, and all the other mistakes we have made, because I love America enough to not wanting to repeat these same mistakes. To stand as a nation, we must remember the bad as well as the good because both the bad and the good is what we are. Let us treasure the good, and, while remembering the bad, throw the bad away. We cannot do that if we never recognize the bad, but are always parroting the good. So let the indecent be indecent, let the good be good, and let us all be free thinkers who will always strive to make us a better nation. Don't ever let anybody persuade you that our best times are behind us. Our best times are always, and will always be, ahead of us. Let us work towards that end.

/RANT

Article is here.

PS - And please vote for Gary Johnson in November.

danarhea said:

Patriotism doesn't mean blind obedience. It means standing up for the Constitution. It doesn't mean rewriting history to gloss over the bad chapters. It means loving your country enough to recognize when we as a nation have done wrong and try not to do it again. It doesn't mean only reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. It's living the Pledge, especially the "Liberty and Justice for all" part of it. In that context, patriotism is a very good thing. Taken too far, it becomes the kind of Fascism that was promoted by Adolf Hitler. Yes, there is a line, and it must never be crossed, for when it is, then patriotism becomes hollow, and not worth the empty words being parroted. When that happens, you are no longer patriotic, but have betrayed the very principles that are the reasons for patriotism in the first place.

I, for one, love my country, and will stand up for the rights of others to criticize it's faults, for it is that very criticism that has kept us from going down a very dark path where freedom and justice no longer exist. Yes, some of the criticism against America I do not like, and I feel that some of the criticism, such as flag burning, is indecent to me. But I do not ever want to forget dark chapters in our history, such as slavery and later lynchings of African Americans, extermination of Native Americans, internment of Japanese citizens, and all the other mistakes we have made, because I love America enough to not wanting to repeat these same mistakes. To stand as a nation, we must remember the bad as well as the good because both the bad and the good is what we are. Let us treasure the good, and, while remembering the bad, throw the bad away. We cannot do that if we never recognize the bad, but are always parroting the good. So let the indecent be indecent, let the good be good, and let us all be free thinkers who will always strive to make us a better nation. Don't ever let anybody persuade you that our best times are behind us. Our best times are are always, and will always, be ahead of us. Let us work towards that end.

/RANT

Article is here.

PS - And please vote for Gary Johnson in November.

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So basically Trump wants schools to teach a rose-colored glasses view of America, and have everyone express blind obedience to the country.

Great. How very patriotic.

If Trump can criticize America for it's faults, then everyone else should be able to do the same. It's a free country after all, is it not? This isn't Panem.

TheGoverness said:

So basically Trump wants schools to teach a rose-colored glasses view of America, and have everyone express blind obedience to the country.

Great. How very patriotic.

If Trump can criticize America for it's faults, then everyone else should be able to do the same. It's a free country after all, is it not? This isn't Panem.

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NO what this really means is that Trump equates himself with America. So when he's in charge that means he is wanting you to honor him. Remember the pledges??? If he wins and then once he gets out of office he won't care about any of this. If he weren't already going to be 74 years old at that time, I'd say he'd go farther left than Bernie more like a noam chomsky after seeing all this nonsense he has tread up.

Not that I'd expect Trump to have an answer to this, but what does it even mean to "teach patriotism in schools"?

danarhea said:

Patriotism doesn't mean blind obedience. It means standing up for the Constitution. It doesn't mean rewriting history to gloss over the bad chapters. It means loving your country enough to recognize when we as a nation have done wrong and try not to do it again. It doesn't mean only reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. It's living the Pledge, especially the "Liberty and Justice for all" part of it. In that context, patriotism is a very good thing. Taken too far, it becomes the kind of Fascism that was promoted by Adolf Hitler. Yes, there is a line, and it must never be crossed, for when it is, then patriotism becomes hollow, and not worth the empty words being parroted. When that happens, you are no longer patriotic, but have betrayed the very principles that are the reasons for patriotism in the first place.

I, for one, love my country, and will stand up for the rights of others to criticize it's faults, for it is that very criticism that has kept us from going down a very dark path where freedom and justice no longer exist. Yes, some of the criticism against America I do not like, and I feel that some of the criticism, such as flag burning, is indecent to me. But I do not ever want to forget dark chapters in our history, such as slavery and later lynchings of African Americans, extermination of Native Americans, internment of Japanese citizens, and all the other mistakes we have made, because I love America enough to not wanting to repeat these same mistakes. To stand as a nation, we must remember the bad as well as the good because both the bad and the good is what we are. Let us treasure the good, and, while remembering the bad, throw the bad away. We cannot do that if we never recognize the bad, but are always parroting the good. So let the indecent be indecent, let the good be good, and let us all be free thinkers who will always strive to make us a better nation. Don't ever let anybody persuade you that our best times are behind us. Our best times are always, and will always be, ahead of us. Let us work towards that end.

/RANT

Article is here.

PS - And please vote for Gary Johnson in November.

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The article was entirely devoid of content related to "teaching patriotism" in schools.
The writer needs to go back to journalism school.

The title doesn't match the article's content.

Blind pride is why America is so effed up right now. The last thing we need is an even bigger ego of self-importance. Pride and humbleness should go in cycles. Celebrate your nation's true accomplishments but temper that with the clarity of vision to look at your shortfalls and mistakes as well. A big thing America needs right now is temperance, which is a sign of maturity in nationhood. We have no excuse for reverting back to an earlier stage, not at this critical juncture.

This guy just looks more and more like a dictator every time he opens his mouth. Let's devalue education and turn children into patriotic automatons circa 1950 all over again. Isn't it obvious by now that lack of critical thinking skills is what's digging this nation's grave?

I have never ever heard our national anthem seen played at school, we do not have a pledge of allegiance and we do not prayer at school. We also do not have school teams and stuff like that.

All attention goes to the learning part of education. Most attention is given to the big important things, languages (Dutch, English are mandatory) and of course math. But we do get history lessons, "aardrijkskunde" aka geography, physical education, traffic lessons (but only at the lower school so that we learn how to cycle, something of real importance in the Netherlands).

The only time we hear the anthem at school is when there is something of epic importance (like a match of the Dutch national team) or when there is a royal funeral. But that would be a real stretch.

Patriotism is not something that should be taught at school. At school you learn the important things in life, patriotism comes from the heart and from the home. Learn about the great history of the United States (but also pay attention to the not so wonderful parts of the US history) and let parents teach their children patriotism. At least that is my opinion.

Regardless of my views on Trump and his candidacy, the fiction he's selling his supporters is absolutely astounding. When did the U.S stop being one nation? did something happen to American culture of which I'm unaware? are Americans defecting en masse? to whom is American apologizing? This is just crudely amazing. Most if not all of what Trump says, does, or proposes is based on an alternate reality that contrasts ours, yet it strikes the core of his supporters, making their idolatry of Trump mightier and fiercer.

Peter King said:

I have never ever heard our national anthem seen played at school, we do not have a pledge of allegiance and we do not prayer at school. We also do not have school teams and stuff like that.

All attention goes to the learning part of education. Most attention is given to the big important things, languages (Dutch, English are mandatory) and of course math. But we do get history lessons, "aardrijkskunde" aka geography, physical education, traffic lessons (but only at the lower school so that we learn how to cycle, something of real importance in the Netherlands).

The only time we hear the anthem at school is when there is something of epic importance (like a match of the Dutch national team) or when there is a royal funeral. But that would be a real stretch.

Patriotism is not something that should be taught at school. At school you learn the important things in life, patriotism comes from the heart and from the home. Learn about the great history of the United States (but also pay attention to the not so wonderful parts of the US history) and let parents teach their children patriotism. At least that is my opinion.

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The nations that teach patriotism are the nations that are devoid of it; why else would they feel insecure about it? The act stems from a perception that there's a shortage that needs to be supplemented. More importantly, patriotism isn't something that can be taught. It's an organic construct that draws from real life processes. If the U.S actually lacks in patriotism, it better looks inside instead of musing such juvenile proposals.

Gaztopian said:

Regardless of my views on Trump and his candidacy, the fiction he's selling his supporters is absolutely astounding. When did the U.S stop being one nation? did something happen to American culture of which I'm unaware? are Americans defecting en masse? to whom is American apologizing? This is just crudely amazing. Most if not all of what Trump says, does, or proposes is based on an alternate reality that contrasts ours, yet it strikes the core of his supporters, making their idolatry of Trump mightier and fiercer.

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Maybe just maybe what he says and what his supporters hear is not the same thing you think he is saying. Listen to him as if he were a woman, if you know what I mean and you can do it then you will get Trump. If you get Trump and you understand the reality of America circa 2016 then you will understand everything.

Hawkeye10 said:

Maybe just maybe what he says and what his supporters hear is not the same thing you think he is saying. Listen to him as if he were a woman, if you know what I mean and you can do it then you will get Trump. If you get Trump and you understand the reality of America circa 2016 then you will understand everything.

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Em, no.

Gaztopian said:

Em, no.

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ok.

:elephantf

Gaztopian said:

The nations that teach patriotism are the nations that are devoid of it; why else would they feel insecure about it? The act stems from a perception that there's a shortage that needs to be supplemented. More importantly, patriotism isn't something that can be taught. It's an organic construct that draws from real life processes. If the U.S actually lacks in patriotism, it better looks inside instead of musing such juvenile proposals.

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If there is one thing Americans are not lacking in, it would be patriotism.

Peter King said:

If there is one thing Americans are not lacking in, it would be patriotism.

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A truly interesting statement from you. How did you come to that conclusion?

Gaea said:

Not that I'd expect Trump to have an answer to this, but what does it even mean to "teach patriotism in schools"?

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It is not that difficult to understand.

There have been various and few concentrations of enlightened geniuses through our world history. You can really just about count them on the fingers of one hand. One of them was the concentration of geniuses that founded the USA.

It's difficult to imagine the mind power in the room when Jefferson, Franklin, Hamilton and Adams sat down to a spirited night of food and drink. Interestingly, they all happened to have different ideas on many topics, but were able to find a road they could all walk to a goal they all agreed on.

That is a part of Patriotism. It is also a model for what is needed to govern. A common goal that samples various ideas and moves forward to a greater, shared and accepted notion of what is better for the country.

We have been taught for decades now that our founders were slave owning, prejudiced, hate filled old white men that constructed a spoils basket to be abused by the privileged.

What is wrong with creating legends that we can aspire to emulate rather than effigies that we are obliged to ridicule?

The Greeks, another concentration of geniuses, had their ideal. Why are we robbed of our role models?

That is what it means to teach patriotism in schools.

Northern Light said:

Blind pride is why America is so aggrandizement up right now. The last thing we need is an even bigger ego of self-importance. Pride and humbleness should go in cycles. Celebrate your nation's true accomplishments but temper that with the clarity of vision to look at your shortfalls and mistakes as well. A big thing America needs right now is temperance, which is a sign of maturity in nationhood. We have no excuse for reverting back to an earlier stage, not at this critical juncture.

This guy just looks more and more like a dictator every time he opens his mouth. Let's devalue education and turn children into patriotic automatons circa 1950 all over again. Isn't it obvious by now that lack of critical thinking skills is what's digging this nation's grave?

Click to expand...

I'm not sure where your idea of devaluing education comes from.

I thought Trump was advocating school choice.

All children have heroes. Some are good role models like a person who cannot tell a lie and there are others who are not such great role models like an amoral sports hero or corrupt and hate filled politician.

IF we happen to ascribe particular very desirable traits to very important men in our history, is that a bad thing?

I was taught that Washington was honest and humble, Lincoln was honest and resolute, Jefferson was brilliant and a visionary and Franklin was a brilliant scientist and gifted negotiator.

Now I am informed that Washington was actually a failed military strategist, Lincoln was possessed by depression, Jefferson was a disingenuous slave owner and Franklin was a deceptive wine sot. All were hate filled, old white men.

I am informed that all of these guys are now dead. How does it hurt our children to be taught that our country was founded by noble and honest people motivated by good intentions and seeking a better life for all?

How does it benefit our children to be taught that our country was founded by vile and selfish reprobates motivated by self aggrandizement and personal advancement?

currently they teach nothing, this would be an improvement.

Peter King said:

I have never ever heard our national anthem seen played at school, we do not have a pledge of allegiance and we do not prayer at school. We also do not have school teams and stuff like that.

All attention goes to the learning part of education. Most attention is given to the big important things, languages (Dutch, English are mandatory) and of course math. But we do get history lessons, "aardrijkskunde" aka geography, physical education, traffic lessons (but only at the lower school so that we learn how to cycle, something of real importance in the Netherlands).

The only time we hear the anthem at school is when there is something of epic importance (like a match of the Dutch national team) or when there is a royal funeral. But that would be a real stretch.

Patriotism is not something that should be taught at school. At school you learn the important things in life, patriotism comes from the heart and from the home. Learn about the great history of the United States (but also pay attention to the not so wonderful parts of the US history) and let parents teach their children patriotism. At least that is my opinion.

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I'm always interested in how my view of my country differs from the view of others view of their native country.

I don't think I ever heard our national anthem at any school that I attended. I do hear it at sporting events.

The pledge of allegiance, it was explained to me in school, differentiated us from other countries in that we do not pledge our allegiance to a person, but rather to the country itself. In Britain, they seem to pledge allegiance to the King or Queen which amounts to the same thing. Do the Dutch feel allegiance to anything on a national level?

In the US, the motto used to be E Pluribus Unum. From many, one. Due to this, the idea that many contrasting components create a stronger whole used to be used to foster the notion that it was because of the many inputs from the various sources, we were stronger and better. A stronger union was therefore attainable only by the inclusion of those things that were different.

It was conveniently ignored that the practice of exclusion was routinely used. America's race issues being the best example of this exclusion.

The ideal was there to aspire to, though. Our flag, is held up for our population as the Fasces was held up for the citizens of the Roman Republic.

In my education, the ideals of fairness, equality and justice before the law were all held up as ideals to be aspired to and to be protected and actively pursued and cherished through hard work and careful planning. This is a huge part of what patriotism was.

Now the ideas taught to our children in place of patriotism are that the founders were corrupt, our leaders are criminal opportunists, our wealth is stolen and our country is both founded on a lie and guided solely by greed and swindle. Dishonesty is at the root of any and all success.

The difference, as I see it, is that my education implanted the idea that my life was in my hands and I could control what happened. Now, it is taught that life is crap shoot and you are at the mercy of luck and fortune and you really have no chance unless you happen to have been born rich.

All in all, I would prefer that patriotism be taught. It creates the notion that maybe a guy can get better through hard work and dedication. You can challenge the biggest and baddest and come out on top.

Might be a pipe dream, but that is what youth is for, is it not?

Gaztopian said:

Regardless of my views on Trump and his candidacy, the fiction he's selling his supporters is absolutely astounding. When did the U.S stop being one nation? did something happen to American culture of which I'm unaware? are Americans defecting en masse? to whom is American apologizing? This is just crudely amazing. Most if not all of what Trump says, does, or proposes is based on an alternate reality that contrasts ours, yet it strikes the core of his supporters, making their idolatry of Trump mightier and fiercer.

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Do you not hear the addresses of our current president.

I cannot recall an address to his supporters NOT setting up an "us vs. them" paradigm. Old vs young, Black vs. White, Black vs police, rich vs. poor, and on and on.

There is only one group of persons in the world that he sees as the enemy to ALL and that group is the Republican party.

Have you been asleep since Obama became President?

What Trump os saying is that every citizen of the USA has particular rights and responsibilities and is the same before the law. He is also saying that not every person on Earth is an American citizen.

What is not true about this? Why do you think this is divisive?

code1211 said:

It is not that difficult to understand.

There have been various and few concentrations of enlightened geniuses through our world history. You can really just about count them on the fingers of one hand. One of them was the concentration of geniuses that founded the USA.

It's difficult to imagine the mind power in the room when Jefferson, Franklin, Hamilton and Adams sat down to a spirited night of food and drink. Interestingly, they all happened to have different ideas on many topics, but were able to find a road they could all walk to a goal they all agreed on.

That is a part of Patriotism. It is also a model for what is needed to govern. A common goal that samples various ideas and moves forward to a greater, shared and accepted notion of what is better for the country.

We have been taught for decades now that our founders were slave owning, prejudiced, hate filled old white men that constructed a spoils basket to be abused by the privileged.

What is wrong with creating legends that we can aspire to emulate rather than effigies that we are obliged to ridicule?

The Greeks, another concentration of geniuses, had their ideal. Why are we robbed of our role models?

That is what it means to teach patriotism in schools.

Click to expand...

When was the last time you were in school? Did your teacher stand up and say "Thomas Jefferson was a racist, slave owning hate filled old white man?"

Gaztopian said:

The nations that teach patriotism are the nations that are devoid of it; why else would they feel insecure about it? The act stems from a perception that there's a shortage that needs to be supplemented. More importantly, patriotism isn't something that can be taught. It's an organic construct that draws from real life processes. If the U.S actually lacks in patriotism, it better looks inside instead of musing such juvenile proposals.

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There is something being taught in schools that addresses the legitimacy or illegitimacy of the Republic.

Gaztopian said:

Em, no.

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What is it that he is saying in particular that is disagreeable to you?

code1211 said:

There is something being taught in schools that addresses the legitimacy or illegitimacy of the Republic.

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Should we ignore the whole slavery thing when teaching history?

Deuce said:

When was the last time you were in school? Did your teacher stand up and say "Thomas Jefferson was a racist, slave owning hate filled old white man?"

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I was in school when they still taught who Phillip of Macedonia was.

As a matter of fact, one of my history teachers was a full throated advocate of Communism and he did expose the fact that Jefferson was a slave owner and that the Declaration of Independence was a piece of propaganda.

code1211 said:

When they taught who Phillip of Macedonia was.

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So how do you know what they're teaching today?