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Why Obama Let Iran's Green Revolution Fail

Carjosse said:
Right, because that has worked so well for America in the past. It is not like America played a role in making Iran a dictatorship in the first place or anything. /s
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The United States saved the free world.

The Muslim extremists are responsible for making Iran what it is, today. Not The United States.
 
apdst said:
The United States saved the free world.

The Muslim extremists are responsible for making Iran what it is, today. Not The United States.
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Before or after they installed a dictator?
 
Carjosse said:
The US are the ones responsibe for installing and supporting the shah.
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The Shah was already there, for one. Two, the coup was a an operation launched by the Brits with secondary support from The United States. The coup only expanded the Shah's power.

You should really research these things instead of repeating everything you read on an internet discussion forum. Shall we go back to the British/Soviet invasion of Iran in 1941? Because, that's a part of it, too.
 
Anthony60 said:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-08-24/why-obama-let-iran-s-green-revolution-fail

But Obama wasn't just reluctant to show solidarity in 2009, he feared the demonstrations would sabotage his secret outreach to Iran. In his new book, "The Iran Wars," Wall Street Journal reporter Jay Solomon uncovers new details on how far Obama went to avoid helping Iran's green movement. Behind the scenes, Obama overruled advisers who wanted to do what America had done at similar transitions from dictatorship to democracy, and signal America's support.

Thoughts? Was Obama right to side with tyranny? If true, this is an incredible betrayal to this country.
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You guys pissed yourselves over Obama's decision to join our Allies in assisting the rebellion against Ghadafi and now you're bitching because he didn't invade Iran? Smh
 
Napoleon said:
You guys pissed yourselves over Obama's decision to join our Allies in assisting the rebellion against Ghadafi and now you're bitching because he didn't invade Iran? Smh
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Obama, the idiot, sided with the muslim brotherhood. This, after Gaddafi saw what happened to Hussein (Saddam that is, not Obama) and came clean with his nuke program and gave it up. He turned Libya into a tinderbox. Our ambassador was killed, and the country, which used to fight ISIS, is now a mess. Why would he side with the muslim brotherhood?
 
Anthony60 said:
Obama, the idiot, sided with the muslim brotherhood. This, after Gaddafi saw what happened to Hussein (Saddam that is, not Obama) and came clean with his nuke program and gave it up. He turned Libya into a tinderbox. Our ambassador was killed, and the country, which used to fight ISIS, is now a mess. Why would he side with the muslim brotherhood?
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First, some correction is required. That Gadaffi had a nuclear program was public knowledge since at least the 1980s and he didn't just give it up. The United States and Britain made a deal with him to lift UN and US sanctions in exchange for acknowledging Libya's role in the Lockerbee bombing, compensating the victims, dismantaling its nuclear and chemical weapons programs and providing proof of disarmament. Gadaffi suspended that agreement in 2009 - hoping to leverage his remaining nuclear materials and chemical weapon stockpile to modify the agreement for additional reward - and was not in full compliance when the revolution began. So instead of acquiescing to his extortion, the US and our Allies chose to pick a side in the civil war and end him.
 
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Anthony60 said:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-08-24/why-obama-let-iran-s-green-revolution-fail

But Obama wasn't just reluctant to show solidarity in 2009, he feared the demonstrations would sabotage his secret outreach to Iran. In his new book, "The Iran Wars," Wall Street Journal reporter Jay Solomon uncovers new details on how far Obama went to avoid helping Iran's green movement. Behind the scenes, Obama overruled advisers who wanted to do what America had done at similar transitions from dictatorship to democracy, and signal America's support.

Thoughts? Was Obama right to side with tyranny? If true, this is an incredible betrayal to this country.
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First of all, I am not sure Obamas action/inaction would have swayed what happened much one way or another. Plus, looking at how other countries turned out who went through the 'transition' perhaps its best the way it is.
 
Fletch said:
First of all, I am not sure Obamas action/inaction would have swayed what happened much one way or another. Plus, looking at how other countries turned out who went through the 'transition' perhaps its best the way it is.
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It wouldn't have. The Egyptian military was neutral and the Libyans had already engaged in an armed conflict/civil war. The landscape was different in Iran. The Green Revolution was toothless and stood no chance of success without direct foreign military intervention. They weren't prepared for armed conflict - that's what they wanted us for.
 
Napoleon said:
You guys pissed yourselves over Obama's decision to join our Allies in assisting the rebellion against Ghadafi and now you're bitching because he didn't invade Iran? Smh
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He didn't do anything in Libya.
 
Anthony60 said:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-08-24/why-obama-let-iran-s-green-revolution-fail

But Obama wasn't just reluctant to show solidarity in 2009, he feared the demonstrations would sabotage his secret outreach to Iran. In his new book, "The Iran Wars," Wall Street Journal reporter Jay Solomon uncovers new details on how far Obama went to avoid helping Iran's green movement. Behind the scenes, Obama overruled advisers who wanted to do what America had done at similar transitions from dictatorship to democracy, and signal America's support.

Thoughts? Was Obama right to side with tyranny? If true, this is an incredible betrayal to this country.
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Anthony, there is just so much fail in the lying editorial you based the thread on. You obediently believe Iran is a dictatorship and of course you obediently believe that President Obama could have magically helped the demonstrators overthrow the govt. Read this slowly, iran is the closest thing to a democracy in the middle east. If it’s a “regime” (as your editorial called it) how come Ahmadinejad is a former president?

Vilified abroad for his blistering attacks against the West, blamed at home for Iran's economic woes and isolated from the supreme leader who groomed him for power, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad leaves the presidency with few friends and an uncertain future.

Iranians elected his opposite - a mild-mannered, moderate member of the clerical establishment - to replace him, doubtless hoping for better times than they endured for eight years under the caustic hardline outsider.

Iran's Ahmadinejad steps aside, divisive to the end | Reuters

Read that slowly, Iranians elected his opposite. See how that proves your editorial was lying. They wont stop lying to you until you stop listening.
 
Vern said:
Anthony, there is just so much fail in the lying editorial you based the thread on. You obediently believe Iran is a dictatorship...
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No, no... Iran, a dictatorship? They are so free over there. Like being free to be who you are, right? Like a person that is gay, no problem, right? They have same sex marriage, don't they?
and of course you obediently believe that President Obama could have magically helped the demonstrators overthrow the govt.
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Whatever the chance for people to be free, we support that in this country. You should know that. At least we did, until Obama.

Read this slowly, iran is the closest thing to a democracy in the middle east. If it’s a “regime” (as your editorial called it) how come Ahmadinejad is a former president?
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I read it both fast and slowly, and it was just as stupid either way.

Iranians elected his opposite - a mild-mannered, moderate member of the clerical establishment - to replace him, doubtless hoping for better times than they endured for eight years under the caustic hardline outsider.
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He's a nobody, the mullahs control the country.

Read that slowly, Iranians elected his opposite.
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So, you think the Iranian people elect a person that is in charge of the country?
 
Anthony60 said:
No, no... Iran, a dictatorship? They are so free over there. Like being free to be who you are, right? Like a person that is gay, no problem, right? They have same sex marriage, don't they?

Whatever the chance for people to be free, we support that in this country. You should know that. At least we did, until Obama.

I read it both fast and slowly, and it was just as stupid either way.

He's a nobody, the mullahs control the country.

So, you think the Iranian people elect a person that is in charge of the country?
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er uh Anthony, whining at my post doesn't change the facts ( and your concern for gays is admirable). the fact still stands that Iran is the closest thing to a democracy in the middle east and you've given no legitimate reason why we should have concerned ourselves with the protests. Pretending it would have magically led to an overthrow of the govt is not a legitimate one.
 
Vern said:
Anthony, there is just so much fail in the lying editorial you based the thread on. You obediently believe Iran is a dictatorship and of course you obediently believe that President Obama could have magically helped the demonstrators overthrow the govt. Read this slowly, iran is the closest thing to a democracy in the middle east. If it’s a “regime” (as your editorial called it) how come Ahmadinejad is a former president?

Vilified abroad for his blistering attacks against the West, blamed at home for Iran's economic woes and isolated from the supreme leader who groomed him for power, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad leaves the presidency with few friends and an uncertain future.

Iranians elected his opposite - a mild-mannered, moderate member of the clerical establishment - to replace him, doubtless hoping for better times than they endured for eight years under the caustic hardline outsider.

Iran's Ahmadinejad steps aside, divisive to the end | Reuters

Read that slowly, Iranians elected his opposite. See how that proves your editorial was lying. They wont stop lying to you until you stop listening.
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Technically it is a Theocracy with an orchistrated popular vote for the nominal government.
 
Anthony60 said:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-08-24/why-obama-let-iran-s-green-revolution-fail

But Obama wasn't just reluctant to show solidarity in 2009, he feared the demonstrations would sabotage his secret outreach to Iran. In his new book, "The Iran Wars," Wall Street Journal reporter Jay Solomon uncovers new details on how far Obama went to avoid helping Iran's green movement. Behind the scenes, Obama overruled advisers who wanted to do what America had done at similar transitions from dictatorship to democracy, and signal America's support.

Thoughts? Was Obama right to side with tyranny? If true, this is an incredible betrayal to this country.
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What #2 said.

We have a horrendous track record when it comes to foreign interventions. There would be no Khameni but for us in Iran. Whose to say we wouldn't inadvertently put someone worse into power by naively throwing support behind a bad element hiding within the movement?

Look at the times we did something under either he or Bush: Libyan revolution flounders, with weapons landing in Al Queda or other unknown hands. Same thing in Syria when we tried to back some of the rebels and ended up being buddy-buddy with some very nasty people. Iraq is still stumbling, and now ISIS has poured into it from Syria. Taliban basically getting back into power in Afghanistan. Etc.



And what "support" anyway, ought he have given? Certainly not sending in our military - we don't need a war with Iran and by proxy with Russia. We're already over-extended and over-spent, sick of the expensive but generally failed efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

So what? A speech? Money and arms that cannot be controlled once they leave our hands?





I think we ought to stay the hell out, unless Iran actually invades Israel. We don't understand that entire area and we never succeed there.
 
Napoleon said:
You guys pissed yourselves over Obama's decision to join our Allies in assisting the rebellion against Ghadafi and now you're bitching because he didn't invade Iran? Smh
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No kidding.



Anthony60 said:
Obama, the idiot, sided with the muslim brotherhood. This, after Gaddafi saw what happened to Hussein (Saddam that is, not Obama) and came clean with his nuke program and gave it up. He turned Libya into a tinderbox. Our ambassador was killed, and the country, which used to fight ISIS, is now a mess. Why would he side with the muslim brotherhood?
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Oh, please. Obama didn't "side with the Muslim Brotherhood."

He gave some speeches praising the Egyptian uprising, which was really allowed by the Egyptian Army. A few speeches didn't accomplish anything. The Army wanted Mubarak out and so it did nothing. The notion that Obama's speech stopped the army from quashing the uprising, and thereby allowing some MB people to get power is ludicrous.

And anyway, reread what Anthony said, this post, and the one above it.

If Obama gave some speeches in support of the Arab Spring in Iran, if it was successful, and if unsavory elements gained power.....you'd just be complaining about that instead.
 
Vern said:
er uh Anthony, whining at my post doesn't change the facts ( and your concern for gays is admirable). the fact still stands that Iran is the closest thing to a democracy in the middle east...
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Why don't you make a clear statement? Because I'm really not sure what you are saying. Is Iran a democracy or not? What flavor? Is it a Representative Democracy?

...and you've given no legitimate reason why we should have concerned ourselves with the protests. Pretending it would have magically led to an overthrow of the govt is not a legitimate one.
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I already stated that this country has always supported freedom around the world, until Obama. Now, it appears, we don't if our President thinks it interferes with his plans.

Obama should have come out with a statement that we support freedom and liberty in Iran. Instead, he said nothing for 10 days. Just let them hang in the wind. I find it incredible that the President of this country stood silent when there was a movement for freedom against an enemy government. Disgraceful.
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Mr Person said:
And what "support" anyway, ought he have given? Certainly not sending in our military - we don't need a war with Iran and by proxy with Russia. We're already over-extended and over-spent, sick of the expensive but generally failed efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

So what? A speech? Money and arms that cannot be controlled once they leave our hands?

I think we ought to stay the hell out, unless Iran actually invades Israel. We don't understand that entire area and we never succeed there.
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Just a verbal support for freedom for the people of Iran. They may not have succeeded, something like that takes a while. The odds of them even trying again where severely diminished by his inaction and actions.
 
Anthony60 said:
Why don't you make a clear statement? Because I'm really not sure what you are saying. Is Iran a democracy or not? What flavor? Is it a Representative Democracy?
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I’ll type it slower for you. Iran is the closest thing to a democratic country in the ME. The reason you cant understand that simple statement is because conservatives cant grasp reality when it conflicts with their ideology. Lets try to work you up to reality slowly (very slowly) so I’ll make the first example really easy for you. Do you think Iran is more or less democratic than the feudal kingdom of Saudi Arabia?

I already stated that this country has always supported freedom around the world, until Obama. Now, it appears, we don't if our President thinks it interferes with his plans.
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sorry Anthony, America has the worst track record on freedom than any other country on the planet. Bush jr alone allowed 2 coups (where's your "we shoulda meddled" policy). You can whine about Venezuela (and I’m sure you obediently do) but it is a democracy. Reagan sponsored terrorism in Nicaraqua to undermine the govt. They had an election in 2004 that the whole world said was fair. Reagan (or whoever was in charge of him that day) said “nuh uh” (what would conservatives do without “nuh uh”).

And Anthony, people protesting an election is not a call for us to invade or meddle. And its hilarious that you automatically and obedently believe the “reason” we didn’t meddle. Now if you want to criticize someone for “not meddling” then you should criticize Bush I. he literally called for people to rise up against saddam after we drove Iraq out of Kuwait. They thought we would support their uprising. Not only did we not support it, we let saddam massacre them.

Suddenly the U.S. was responsible for all of those rebels answering Bush's call to arms. Yet at the Safwan negotiations, Schwarzkopf carelessly authorized the Iraqis to use helicopter gunships on their side of the cease-fire line. The Iraqi generals were so surprised by that concession—which permitted them to strafe and rocket Kurds and (Shi-ites) from the air—that one of the Iraqi generals incredulously asked: "So you mean even the helicopters that are armed can fly in the Iraqi skies?"

First Gulf War'''s Mistakes Explain U.S. Presence in Iraq - The Daily Beast

And fyi, it was not carelessness. It was policy to keep Iran in check. But it was their own fault for believing Bush would do anything to help because we did have a track record of not caring about Saddam murdering his own people.

"
The United States almost certainly knew from its own satellite imagery that Saddam was using chemical weapons against Iranian troops. When Saddam bombed Kurdish rebels and civilians with a lethal cocktail of mustard gas, sarin, tabun and VX in 1988, the Reagan administration first blamed Iran, before acknowledging, under pressure from congressional Democrats, that the culprits were Saddam's own forces. There was only token official protest at the time. Saddam's men were unfazed.
"
http://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/167/34978.html

So guy, instead of obediently believing every lie about President Obama come back when you can deal with Reagan’s terrorism and Bush’s abandoning of Iraq’s “green revolution”.
 
Vern said:
I’ll type it slower for you. Iran is the closest thing to a democratic country in the ME. The reason you cant understand that simple statement is because conservatives cant grasp reality when it conflicts with their ideology. Lets try to work you up to reality slowly (very slowly) so I’ll make the first example really easy for you. Do you think Iran is more or less democratic than the feudal kingdom of Saudi Arabia?
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ORLY?

Hmmmmmmmmmm

I think there are others.
 
Vern said:
I’ll type it slower for you...you cant understand that simple statement...Lets try to work you up to reality slowly (very slowly)... really easy for you.

...whine about Venezuela (and I’m sure you obediently do)... (what would conservatives do without “nuh uh”)...

...its hilarious that you automatically and obedently believe...So guy, instead of obediently believing every lie...
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Here's some advice for you, "Guy".

When you respond with immature garbage like this, most people, and I certainly, can't take you seriously. Especially when you are trying to back up foolish statements. Not very impressive.

Oh, and give the spell check a try. It really works, and I see that you need it.
 
Anthony60 said:
Here's some advice for you, "Guy".

When you respond with immature garbage like this, most people, and I certainly, can't take you seriously. Especially when you are trying to back up foolish statements. Not very impressive.

Oh, and give the spell check a try. It really works, and I see that you need it.
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Anthony, a cowardly dodge is still a cowardly dodge even if you feign umbrage. You're not mad at my supposed insults. You're mad at the facts in my post. And those facts eviscerated your naïve (at best) belief that "that this country has always supported freedom around the world, until Obama" which in turns shreds the whole basis of your thread. Now lets try this again.

Do you think Iran is more or less democratic than the feudal kingdom of Saudi Arabia? (remember, you feigned an interest in my comment that Iran is as close to a democratic country as there is in the ME)
 
Vern said:
Anthony, a cowardly dodge is still a cowardly dodge even if you feign umbrage. You're not mad at my supposed insults. You're mad at the facts in my post. And those facts eviscerated your naïve (at best) belief that "that this country has always supported freedom around the world, until Obama" which in turns shreds the whole basis of your thread. Now lets try this again.

Do you think Iran is more or less democratic than the feudal kingdom of Saudi Arabia? (remember, you feigned an interest in my comment that Iran is as close to a democratic country as there is in the ME)
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Shut up about being cowardly, you are embarrassing. You think it takes courage to post something on an internet board? What a freakin' joke, I'm laughing at you.

Your posts are foolish, they don't even warrant a response from me. Iran is a democracy? Go over there and and tell them how bad the Mullahs are and that they should be removed. You won't see sunshine for 20 years. What a fool. You are an immature kid in your underwear in your Mom's basement, that's how you come off. So, get lost until you grow up.
 
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