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Obama calls for adding public option to ObamaCare

Greenbeard said:
The lines you're trying to draw here mean very little. The "private sector insurance providers" you're talking about make a significant chunk of their revenue from "government" (single-payer?) insurance: Medicare and Medicaid. Medicaid is where the real money from the ACA coverage expansions is being made by private insurers--by some of the very same actors that whine about losing money on the much smaller market segment they insure through commercial plans in the exchanges.

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And where does the government get the money to pay the private sector providers?
 
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Chomsky said:
If the private for profit insurers were doing this better, wouldn't all the seniors be dumping medicare for private insurers?
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Where does the money come from to fund Medicare?
 
Chomsky said:
In cases like medicaid or medicare where the government is fully subsidizing these plans, are the insurance companies acting trully as insurers? Isn't this more like single-payer, since the government is picking up the tab. Then isn't the insurance company acting more like a for profit administrator?
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The government isn't really "picking up the tab" for medical services in those programs, though. The government pays the Medicaid managed care company or the Medicare Advantage company a monthly premium for the individual. The insurer is then at risk for all medical expenses incurred by their enrolled population. It's actually a way of shifting risk away from the government and onto private companies, which is why it's been so popular in Medicaid.

It's not a like a TPA arrangement for a large employer or something, where the employer would set aside money for its employees' health expenses and simply pay an insurer a fee to do administrative work like paying claims. In those cases, the insurance company isn't bearing any risk, the employer is (so effectively the employer is the insurer). That's not what's happening when private plans bear risk for the costs of Medicaid or Medicare enrollees.

In other words, the government may be paying the premiums, but it isn't bearing the risk. So yes, those companies generally are acting like insurers.
 
Casper said:
They made a bad choice?
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The government isn't going to pay their losses anymore so there is
no reason for them to stay in.

Yep obamacare was a bad choice to bad liberals didn't want to listen
that government shouldn't be messing with the healthcare system.

of course for some reason they seem to think they know better than I do what
is good for me.
 
Donc said:
I'm glad you and your family are in good hands Ludin, Just as I was in good hands with the VA before bush and the war criminals started the wars and overwhelmed the VA.

But if this congress would get their hands outta their collective ass’s the VA COULD be what it was before the war criminals wars.:thumbs:
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Not really. Some VA centers are good but overall it isn't.
Sorry you have to blame bush for what Obama had 8 years to fix
and didn't.

you need to stop blaming bush he isn't the president anymore
you are living with Obama the person you voted for.

the VA is what it Is because of his failure no one else's.
sorry that you have to live with the crap VA system.

that isn't what I want for my healthcare but with single payer I would
get the same crap system.
 
ludin said:
The government isn't going to pay their losses anymore so there is
no reason for them to stay in.

Yep obamacare was a bad choice to bad liberals didn't want to listen
that government shouldn't be messing with the healthcare system.

of course for some reason they seem to think they know better than I do what
is good for me.
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Well I agree and disagree, something needed to be done but what we got was not the answer.
 
Casper said:
Well I agree and disagree, something needed to be done but what we got was not the answer.
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ya think we knew it wasn't the answer when they proposed it.
you can't demand coverage and expect prices to go down.

with all the money they wasted on this nonsense they could have covered pretty much everyone by
setting up HSA accounts with annual contributions and it would have cost half as much.

https://www.quora.com/If-you-divide...subscribed-to-date-what-do-you-get-per-person

50k per person? they could have given each person a 10k HSA and done better by far and way cheaper.
HSA plans come with hospital.
 
Donc said:
Make it simple, Medicare for all.:rock
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That's simple. Someone else pays for everyone. Amazing. It's like...magic. And when the "magic" doesn't work, find a scapegoat. For liberals like Donald Trump it's Mexicans and for liberals like Bernie Sanders it's insurance companies.

You have to admit that VA Healthcare is working so well we should simply move everyone onto VA Healthcare.
 
DifferentDrummr said:
Every other industrialized nation does it. Pretending that the US is the only one that can't is lunacy.
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All one has to do is look at the VA, a totally government controlled healthcare delivery system, fatally flawed, unaccountable, uncorrectable, and intractable bureaucracy, as you'd expect with a government run system.

Some are saying that a government run healthcare delivery system would be like Medicare. I'm afraid that it's going to end up more like the VA.
 
QUOTE ludin

Not really. Some VA centers are good but overall it isn't.
Sorry you have to blame bush for what Obama had 8 years to fix
and didn't.
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How many republican senators voted against the Comprehensive Veterans Health and Benefits and Military Retirement Pay Restoration Act in 2014?

you need to stop blaming bush he isn't the president anymore
you are living with Obama the person you voted for.
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Just pointing out the effect and cause for you.

the VA is what it Is because of his failure no one else's.
sorry that you have to live with the crap VA system.
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If republicans hadn't stonewalled BO for eight years, the VA would be fixed as we speak.

that isn't what I want for my healthcare but with single payer I would
get the same crap system.
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I woulda thought you would want the best for you and your family.It's kinda surprising that you would be putting your Ideology ahead of your familys heathcare.SAD indeed :(
 
eohrnberger said:
All one has to do is look at the VA, a totally government controlled healthcare delivery system, fatally flawed, unaccountable, uncorrectable, and intractable bureaucracy, as you'd expect with a government run system.

Some are saying that a government run healthcare delivery system would be like Medicare. I'm afraid that it's going to end up more like the VA.
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So run the VA differently. As an American, you should be ashamed to be offering nothing but pessimism.
 
Patrickt said:
That's simple. Someone else pays for everyone. Amazing. It's like...magic. And when the "magic" doesn't work, find a scapegoat. For liberals like Donald Trump it's Mexicans and for liberals like Bernie Sanders it's insurance companies.

You have to admit that VA Healthcare is working so well we should simply move everyone onto VA Healthcare.
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Personally, I would prefer Medicare from the day you’re born till the day that they throw dirt in your face.:thumbs:
 
Greenbeard said:
The government isn't really "picking up the tab" for medical services in those programs, though. The government pays the Medicaid managed care company or the Medicare Advantage company a monthly premium for the individual. The insurer is then at risk for all medical expenses incurred by their enrolled population. It's actually a way of shifting risk away from the government and onto private companies, which is why it's been so popular in Medicaid.

It's not a like a TPA arrangement for a large employer or something, where the employer would set aside money for its employees' health expenses and simply pay an insurer a fee to do administrative work like paying claims. In those cases, the insurance company isn't bearing any risk, the employer is (so effectively the employer is the insurer). That's not what's happening when private plans bear risk for the costs of Medicaid or Medicare enrollees.

In other words, the government may be paying the premiums, but it isn't bearing the risk. So yes, those companies generally are acting like insurers.
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Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I think I'd agree: However bears the risk is technically the 'insurer', regardless of who's paying the premium.
 
DifferentDrummr said:
So run the VA differently. As an American, you should be ashamed to be offering nothing but pessimism.
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The government, having established such a stellar track record :roll:, I think this to be realistic rather than pessimistic.
 
eohrnberger said:
The nation was more built on private sector expansion and growth rather than government programs.
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So the private sector is what is failing us now then. All the more reason for Govt. to step in and take up the slack.
 
iguanaman said:
So the private sector is what is failing us now then. All the more reason for Govt. to step in and take up the slack.
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i-am-from-the-government-i-am-here-to-help.jpg


I guess it depends on how you look at it. Seems the government was the source of the his mess. More government is sure to what? Make it better? :lamo
 
Donc said:
Make it simple, Medicare for all.:rock
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Lol.......States already have the option of going to a Single payer plan and opt out of ObamaCare altogether

Vermont even went so far as hiring MITs Johnathon Gruber and Harvards William Hsiao to run the numbers for them to see if their Single payer initiative , " Green Mountain Care ",was even feasible

According to a report issued by the economist it would save the State over a Billion dollars by 2019

So why doesn't Vermont have a Single payer system ? Well for one Gruber and Hsiao are just two left wing hacks who submitted 800k dollars with of propaganda ( Vermont payed them 400k to do the Math )

No, it wouldn't save the State over a Billion dollars, Single payer would have bankrupted the State, driven out Businesses and capital investment.

Tax increases in excess of 150 % were needed to pay for Green Mountain care so the Governor nixed the idea altogether

Can't have " free healthcare " with no tax base to pay for it

Part of the problem when progressives bring up Single payer a superior alternative to what we had prior ObamaCare is Progressives LIE.

The means justifies the end and if they have to present Bull shut propaganda as " proof " that Single payer is the way to go then so be it
 
Fenton said:
Lol.......States already have the option of going to a Single payer plan and opt out of ObamaCare altogether

Vermont even went so far as hiring MITs Johnathon Gruber and Harvards William Hsiao to run the numbers for them to see if their Single payer initiative , " Green Mountain Care ",was even feasible

According to a report issued by the economist it would save the State over a Billion dollars by 2019

So why doesn't Vermont have a Single payer system ? Well for one Gruber and Hsiao are just two left wing hacks who submitted 800k dollars with of propaganda ( Vermont payed them 400k to do the Math )

No, it wouldn't save the State over a Billion dollars, Single payer would have bankrupted the State, driven out Businesses and capital investment.

Tax increases in excess of 150 % were needed to pay for Green Mountain care so the Governor nixed the idea altogether

Can't have " free healthcare " with no tax base to pay for it

Part of the problem when progressives bring up Single payer a superior alternative to what we had prior ObamaCare is Progressives LIE.

The means justifies the end and if they have to present Bull shut propaganda as " proof " that Single payer is the way to go then so be it
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Vermont was attemting to implement Medicare for all?.I didnt know that.:shock:
 
Donc said:
Vermont was attemting to implement Medicare for all?.I didnt know that.:shock:
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Im sure there's quite a bit you dont know and yes, Vermont was going to be the first State to offer up Single Payer as a replacement for ObamaCare

Again, the Democrats with their great wisdom and knowledge added in the option into the ACA thinking that a State could honestly inact a Single payer system without cratering their local economy.

These are the same people that think more Government control over our Healthcare is whats going to fix ObamaCare

Lol !!

Obama and the Democrats have done enough damage, dont you think ?

I mean ObamaCare is SO bad, Democrats in the last Midterms had to pretend it didn't exist for fear of losing their jobs. And they got creamed anyway
 
Obama care isn't magic?
 
DifferentDrummr said:
So now you want to privatize the VA? How's that going to work?
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Now I didn't say that, did I?

I just don't have much faith in government's ability to actually deliver much of anything worth what it typically costs them (the tax payers).
 
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