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High School Boy Wins All-State Honors In Girls Track And Field

Zyphlin said:
None of these stories seem to indicate if the student is undergoing hormone treatment, and they mention that the rules in Alaska don't require that hormone treatment occur, simply that they identify. If she's had extensive hormone treatment, that's one thing not she hasn't, that's a whole other issue. I can understand why other competitors may be peeved however, especially since scholarship oppertunities could be on the line.
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She takes female hormones and additional drugs to suppress her body's testosterone.

fmw said:
It is pretty simple. Rights are activities that don't cost others the ability to freely exercise their rights. Allowing boys to compete athletically against girls isn't a right. The reason is that it impedes the girls from freely competing in the athletics. I don't care if the boy wishes he were a girl. I do care that those adults who operate the competitions allow him to compete against girls because of his wishes. He has no right to that. That makes it disruptive.

Who decided that? The girls did. They were quoted saying so in the article. He has a right to wish he were anything. He does not have a right to invade the girls' competition. The coaches were dead wrong in allowing it. Allowing people to trample the rights of others is disruptive to society. It is common sense. Think it through.
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Not all of the students at her school object to her participation in sports
Sophomore Gabi Miller played volleyball with Ice this year.

"We would hang out and talk, and I heard about her story and stuff like that. It's pretty inspiring to hear because not a lot of people go through what she has gone through, what she is going through," Miller said.

When asked if it makes a difference to her knowing Ice is transgender, Miller replied, "Not at all."

"Even if she wasn't (transgender), it's not a big deal to me. I care about her no matter what," Miller said. "I've seen a couple people that aren't as accepting, but for the most part people do accept her and they do care about her."
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jmotivator said:
Teen Male Dominates Girls Track And Field | The Daily Caller

"Haines senior Nattaphon Wangyot advanced to the state finals in the 100-meter and 200-meter events. He won fifth place in the 100-meter dash and third place in the 200-meter. In both events, he competed against girls as young as ninth grade.

One of the girls Wangyot beat out for a slot at the state meet, Hutchison runner Emma Daniels, took issue with allowing a male athlete to compete in girls events.

“I’m glad that this person is comfortable with who they are and they’re able to be happy in who they are, but I don’t think it’s competitively completely 100-percent fair,” she told a local CBS station."


Thoughts?
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If one's delusion regarding their gender is accepted as proof of it, then those who accepted the student's 'identity' clearly lack critical thinking faculties, and should be extracted from the gene pool immediately.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
Its gonna be weird when high school womens wrestling division is just 5 dudes in a dress. Sounds like a comedy movie.
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That's a pretty big dress! ;)
 
roguenuke said:
So you think you can find 5 teenage boys to pretend to be girls every day at school and practice and meets for even an entire school year let alone 3-4 just to wrestle the girls?
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Hmmm... wrestle with girls, win, get scholarship to wrestle college girls...

Yeah, I can't see how that would be appealing.

And how dare you tell them how to dress at school!
 
jmotivator said:
Hmmm... wrestle with girls, win, get scholarship to wrestle college girls...

Yeah, I can't see how that would be appealing.

And how dare you tell them how to dress at school!
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Where did I say that they had to dress a certain way? But if the rule is gender identity, feminine pronouns would be used.
 
Celebrity said:
Statistics do have to do with it. If this type of behavior occurs, it would be a matter of gender identity, and it is not likely that five guys both will suddenly claim to be girls and bar other girls from joining the team in the manner you describe. Although possible, it is statistically improbable to find transgender this frequently on a single water polo team. Unless you can show that water polo players are more likely to be transgender, anti discrimination clauses could likely prevent the team from consisting of either only girls who were physically born female, or only transgender individuals who have integrated within a school setting.
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Why wouldn't it be likely? What data do you have that proves this wouldn't happen? You are not grasping the concept.

There is no standard for determining if some guy claiming to be a girl is actually telling the truth. And visa versa. If some guys decided to become State Champions in Water Polo, it's quite possible they could do that by claiming they were girls, and joining the girls team. There is no getting around the size and muscle mass issue. That's just biological.

I don't see how your claim about anti-discrimination would work. How could a coach deny a transgender male from joining a girls team? How could he stop 5 transgender males from joining? How could he stop them from playing? I suppose that is where the anti-discrimination lawsuit would start, but it would be against the school and the coach for failing to allow them to play.
 
ocean515 said:
Why wouldn't it be likely? What data do you have that proves this wouldn't happen? You are not grasping the concept.

There is no standard for determining if some guy claiming to be a girl is actually telling the truth. And visa versa. If some guys decided to become State Champions in Water Polo, it's quite possible they could do that by claiming they were girls, and joining the girls team. There is no getting around the size and muscle mass issue. That's just biological.

I don't see how your claim about anti-discrimination would work. How could a coach deny a transgender male from joining a girls team? How could he stop 5 transgender males from joining? How could he stop them from playing? I suppose that is where the anti-discrimination lawsuit would start, but it would be against the school and the coach for failing to allow them to play.
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It's no fun when you make my points for me. For someone with muscle mass, it's a non issue.
 
Here's my 2 cents on the matter. I am disturbed that he was allowed to compete as a girl only because he identified as one. If I understand this correctly, he has not had the surgery. IMHO, until he has had the surgery and becomes a girl, he remains a man, and should not be allowed to compete in girls' sports.
 
danarhea said:
Here's my 2 cents on the matter. I am disturbed that he was allowed to compete as a girl only because he identified as one. If I understand this correctly, he has not had the surgery. IMHO, until he has had the surgery and becomes a girl, he remains a man, and should not be allowed to compete in girls' sports.
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What about transgender men? Are they girls until they have surgery, too? Kind of pointless to make this a matter of anatomy, if you ask me.
 
fmw said:
1.)It is pretty simple. Rights are activities that don't cost others the ability to freely exercise their rights.
2.) Allowing boys to compete athletically against girls isn't a right. The reason is that it impedes the girls from freely competing in the athletics. I don't care if the boy wishes he were a girl. I do care that those adults who operate the competitions allow him to compete against girls because of his wishes. He has no right to that. That makes it disruptive.

Who decided that? The girls did. They were quoted saying so in the article.
3.) He has a right to wish he were anything.
4.) He does not have a right to invade the girls' competition.
5.) The coaches were dead wrong in allowing it.
6.) Allowing people to trample the rights of others is disruptive to society.
7.) It is common sense. Think it through.
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1.) correct
2.) never claimed it was nor is that the whole story here, or is the issue that black and white as my previous posts talked about
3.) true
4.) again never claimed he did and again the issue is MUCH larger than that
5.) thats only an opinion, one I share IF the dtrails work out like I stated or it could be one i have zero issues with if history and science says so
6.) well theres no evidence of that here yet nor do transgender rights do that . . .this person may not be transgender thought, like I pointed out earlier
7.) nothign to think through, what you are stating IS common sense, what is actually happening or could have happened doesnt line up with your statement at all
 
Celebrity said:
Statistics do have to do with it. If this type of behavior occurs, it would be a matter of gender identity, and it is not likely that five guys both will suddenly claim to be girls and bar other girls from joining the team in the manner you describe. Although possible, it is statistically improbable to find transgender this frequently on a single water polo team. Unless you can show that water polo players are more likely to be transgender, anti discrimination clauses could likely prevent the team from consisting of either only girls who were physically born female, or only transgender individuals who have integrated within a school setting.
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No, this really has nothing to do with statistics. The issue here is who sets the guidelines as to who can compete. If a male can simply say they identify as a female and then join the team, there are possibilities an entire group doing this to simply win titles etc. The issue isn't that its highly unlikely five actual transgendered people will all be on the same team. The issue is there are no guidelines to who can actually compete. Is it someone with a medical note from a doctor that they have gender dyphoria? Is it simply stating they feel like they are the opposite gender? There needs to be guidelines put in place that deals with these issues.
 
Someone in the federal government needs to come up with a strict law defining genders...or this situation could get absolutely ridiculous.

You cannot be a horny teenaged male and just say you are a woman so that you can then waltz into the girl's change rooms just so you can get some cheap thrills watching them get naked/shower.

Or a guy who wants a scholarship in track but is not quite good enough. So he then claims to be a woman, wipes the floor with the gals, gets his scholarship and competes against women in college (even though he actually considers himself a guy in every way). And as soon as he gets his free college degree - he declares that he is now a guy again.

You cannot just have people being able to change what their gender is whenever they feel like it without having to actually do anything to change gender.
 
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ocean515 said:
Why wouldn't it be likely? What data do you have that proves this wouldn't happen? You are not grasping the concept.

There is no standard for determining if some guy claiming to be a girl is actually telling the truth. And visa versa. If some guys decided to become State Champions in Water Polo, it's quite possible they could do that by claiming they were girls, and joining the girls team. There is no getting around the size and muscle mass issue. That's just biological.

I don't see how your claim about anti-discrimination would work. How could a coach deny a transgender male from joining a girls team? How could he stop 5 transgender males from joining? How could he stop them from playing? I suppose that is where the anti-discrimination lawsuit would start, but it would be against the school and the coach for failing to allow them to play.
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This isn't true though. The standard for this girls school was must be the persons gender identity. So that would mean they would have to identify as a "girl", as female on official school related paperwork and records. And this is one of the most lenient school policies about this that I've seen. In Alaska, they leave it up to the district first, then if the district doesn't set a specific policy, it becomes the more stringent state policy of "sex at birth".
 
DA60 said:
Someone in the federal government needs to come up with a strict law defining genders...or this situation could get absolutely ridiculous.

You cannot be a horny teenaged male and just say you are a woman so that you can then waltz into the girl's change rooms just so you can get some cheap thrills watching them get naked/shower.

Or a guy who wants a scholarship in track but is not quite good enough. So he then claims to be a woman, wipes the floor with the gals, gets his scholarship and competes against women in college (even though he actually considers himself a guy in every way). And as soon as he gets his free college degree - he declares that he is now a guy again.

You cannot just have people being able to change what their gender is whenever they feel like it without having to actually do anything to change gender.
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That isn't how their policy is set up, and they have one of the most lenient around. The student had to officially identify as that gender on all official school paperwork and transcripts. They can't just waltz up to the coach or practice and say "I feel like a girl today, you have to let me play".
 
roguenuke said:
That isn't how their policy is set up, and they have one of the most lenient around. The student had to officially identify as that gender on all official school paperwork and transcripts. They can't just waltz up to the coach or practice and say "I feel like a girl today, you have to let me play".
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So what?

They can still get it done if they really want to - even if they are not a woman and have zero intention of becoming a woman.

I don't care how much red tape there is - you should not be able to legally call yourself a woman if you are a man yet have done nothing to physically change your sex to that of a woman.
 
DA60 said:
So what?

They can still get it done if they really want to - even if they are not a woman and have zero intention of becoming a woman.

I don't care how much red tape there is - you should not be able to legally call yourself a woman if you are a man yet have done nothing to physically change your sex to that of a woman.
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I actually agree with you, to an extent, but also think you are blowing this out of proportion because there is little chance that a teen boy could legitimately claim to be female on paperwork alone and not be questioned about it, refused participation on a team because the school fees they are only making such a claim to compete or for some other reason than making a legitimate claim. I think a legitimate doctors note should be enough though.

In this case though, it has been reported that she was taking hormones and living as a girl, so she was taking steps to becoming a woman. It is a long process especially when someone is so young.
 
roguenuke said:
I actually agree with you, to an extent, but also think you are blowing this out of proportion because there is little chance that a teen boy could legitimately claim to be female on paperwork alone and not be questioned about it, refused participation on a team because the school fees they are only making such a claim to compete or for some other reason than making a legitimate claim. I think a legitimate doctors note should be enough though.

In this case though, it has been reported that she was taking hormones and living as a girl, so she was taking steps to becoming a woman. It is a long process especially when someone is so young.
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I am sorry but life has limits - you cannot have everything.

I think the government should set standards as to what does and does not constitute a man or a woman and until you meet the new criteria, you are legally judged to be your original sex.

And I don't particularly care if it inconveniences someone while they are in the process of changing sexes.

This is not a life and death issue. I assume they are in no physical danger if they remain their original sex - it is purely an emotional decision.

You want to change sexes - knock yourself out.

But until you are finished with the transition, you are going to have to be inconvenienced in terms of using bathroom facilities and the like. If that is uncomfortable - tough.

Not everything in life is easy.
 
DA60 said:
I am sorry but life has limits - you cannot have everything.

I think the government should set standards as to what does and does not constitute a man or a woman and until you meet the new criteria, you are legally judged to be your original sex.

And I don't particularly care if it inconveniences someone while they are in the process of changing sexes.

This is not a life and death issue. They are in no physical danger of they remain their original sex - it is purely an emotional decision.

You want to change sexes - not yourself out.

But until you are finished with the transition, you are going to have to be inconvenienced. If that is uncomfortable - tough.

Not everything in life is easy.
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And others disagree with you. If it were up to me, I'd say the person had to be going through hormone therapy for X (research should determine how long it takes) amount of years to compete against those in their gender identity. However, I'm not going to claim that I think it's rational to believe that slightly less stringent rules are going to lead to boys being allowed to pretend to be girls just to compete, especially if the school knows they are just pretending to compete.
 
jmotivator said:
Teen Male Dominates Girls Track And Field | The Daily Caller

"Haines senior Nattaphon Wangyot advanced to the state finals in the 100-meter and 200-meter events. He won fifth place in the 100-meter dash and third place in the 200-meter. In both events, he competed against girls as young as ninth grade.

One of the girls Wangyot beat out for a slot at the state meet, Hutchison runner Emma Daniels, took issue with allowing a male athlete to compete in girls events.

“I’m glad that this person is comfortable with who they are and they’re able to be happy in who they are, but I don’t think it’s competitively completely 100-percent fair,” she told a local CBS station."


Thoughts?
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yes - this is beyond stupid and should never have been allowed. Its a perversion of an idea taken several bridges too far.
 
DA60 said:
I am sorry but life has limits - you cannot have everything.

I think the government should set standards as to what does and does not constitute a man or a woman and until you meet the new criteria, you are legally judged to be your original sex.

And I don't particularly care if it inconveniences someone while they are in the process of changing sexes.

This is not a life and death issue. I assume they are in no physical danger if they remain their original sex - it is purely an emotional decision.

You want to change sexes - knock yourself out.

But until you are finished with the transition, you are going to have to be inconvenienced in terms of using bathroom facilities and the like. If that is uncomfortable - tough.

Not everything in life is easy.
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This is like saying you can't do your own personal business until you get a job in healthcare. :(

Tell us more about how you think this should be an emotional discussion.
 
Celebrity said:
This is like saying you can't do your own personal business until you get a job in healthcare. :(

Tell us more about how you think this should be an emotional discussion.
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No idea what you are blathering about as I said absolutely nothing about trying to make this discussion an emotional one. I was not even thinking of that.

I assume you are one of those people that reads a post and then decides what it means - whether it states that meaning or not.

I try and stay clear of people like you as I don't waste my time with people who try and put words in my mouth.

Next time, try reading what people actually say and not converting the words to suit whatever the heck your agenda is here (which I am not the slightest bit interested in knowing what it is).


Bu bye now.
 
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