FBI Reveals New Details About Its Probe Into Hillary Clinton's Use of Private Email S

Re: FBI Reveals New Details About Its Probe Into Hillary Clinton's Use of Private Ema

When we see a Marine General, the State Dept INR, the French intel....all come to the same conclusion on the false tale of Niger yellowcake sales, how can you still sit there and say today, knowing full well it was false, believe that the story told by Cheney's office still has any legitimacy? How can you still act as if the inference of nepotism holds any weight still today when we know it was all a charade by Cheney's office. A charade given full legitimacy by Novak who, like Cheney's office, was bent on revenge.

Click to expand...

That's totally irrelevant... Bush never claimed that Iraq had purchased uranium, only that they were attempting to purchase it, which Wilson's report to the CIA happened to lend credibility to.

The whole point of reviewing any of this is to learn from mistakes. You would rather toss out all of the lessons......and continue to re-tell the lies. That is the act of a cultist.

Click to expand...

Sworn testimony, documents, investigative conclusions and first hand accounts... Lies indeed.

LMMFAO

Re: FBI Reveals New Details About Its Probe Into Hillary Clinton's Use of Private Ema

Gimmesometruth said:

Knight Ridder Newspapers[/COLOR]

WASHINGTON - Making his case for war with Iraq, President Bush in his State of the Union address this year accused Saddam Hussein of trying to buy uranium from Africa even though the CIA had warned White House and other officials that the story didn't check out.

A senior CIA official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said the intelligence agency informed the White House on March 9, 2002 - 10 months before Bush's nationally televised speech - that an agency source who had traveled to Niger couldn't confirm European intelligence reports that Iraq was attempting to buy uranium from the West African country.

Click to expand...

Wow... Either that reporter a) made a mistake, b) lied and there was no anonymous CIA source, or c) had an anonymous CIA source who lied to him.

Take your choice, because that has already been proven to be absolutely, totally and completely 100% false.

Here is some of what was in that intelligence report:



So explain to me how that report could say that Iraq tried to set up a meeting to buy uranium, and at the same time say Wilson couldn't confirm if they had attempted to buy uranium... especially when confirming whether Iraq attempted to purchase uranium, was never part of Wilson's mission in the first place?

LMMFAO

Re: FBI Reveals New Details About Its Probe Into Hillary Clinton's Use of Private Ema

Grim17 said:

but rather a former diplomat who's wife works for the CIA and used her influence to get him the job

Click to expand...

This is the crux of yer insane argument, yer arguing Joe used his wife to get the job.....whereas previously....the argument was that she tapped him.

So let me understand yer conspiracy theory, Joe wanted to somehow make the WH look bad, so his plan was to use his wife to get in? This former ambassador, appointed by GH Bush, had a plan to bring down the GW Bush administration?

Re: FBI Reveals New Details About Its Probe Into Hillary Clinton's Use of Private Ema

Gimmesometruth said:

This is the crux of yer insane argument, yer arguing Joe used his wife to get the job.....whereas previously....the argument was that she tapped him.

Click to expand...

WTF?

I never said or implied that... JFC man.

So let me understand yer conspiracy theory, Joe wanted to somehow make the WH look bad, so his plan was to use his wife to get in? This former ambassador, appointed by GH Bush, had a plan to bring down the GW Bush administration?

Click to expand...

FFS, I have no idea what you're babbling about. There's no conspiracy theory here, just simple facts.

1. Cheney wanted more intel on a foreign report that Iraq had a deal with Niger for uranium.
2. On 2/12/02, Plame wrote a memo to the DC in her department suggesting that they consider sending her husband to snoop around.
3. On 2/19/02, A meeting to discuss the idea with various CIA analysts, department heads, reps from INR and Wilson himself, was convened apparently by Plame who participated in the meeting.
4. On 2/20/02, They decided that the mission was a go and wilson left for Niger the next day.
5. Wilson was requested upon his arrival, and he agreed to, restrict his contact to only former officials and those in the private sector.
6. On 3/5/02, Wilson was back in the US and was debriefed by 2 CIA officers at his home. Plame was there, but did not participate.
7. The report on Wilson's trip said nothing was uncovered indicating a sale between Iraq and Niger, but said Nigerian officials did not refute the possibility that Iraq had attempted to do so. The most significant information obtained was that according to the former Nigerian PM, a man approached him in 1999 to set up a meeting with him and an Iraqi delegation to discuss "expanding commercial relations", which the PM said meant to discuss the sale of yellowcake uranium.
8. The report on Wilson's trip used a code name for him and did not mention he was a former ambassador. The CIA and DIA didn't think the report added much to the issue and for that reason the report was never briefed to the VP.
9. President Bush makes his SOTU speech in January, 2003.
10. On 5/6/03, the first of many false claims and accusations by Wilson surface in the Nicolas Kristof article "Why the truth matters".
11. The Administration, including the VP, have no idea who the "former ambassador" in the article was, or about his trip to Niger, or anything about the information he claims he reported to the CIA, so they have Carl Ford from the INR investigate.
12. On 6/10/03, Ford issues a memo on Wilson, detailing who he was, when he was sent, why he was chosen and the information that he reported from his assignment. It reported that Wilson's wife, a "WMD manager" named "Valerie Wilson" had convened the meeting to discuss the trip and it marked the first time that the administration learned her name and her involvement in Wilson's assignment.
13. On 6/12/03, it's learned that Plame worked at a desk in non-proliferations at Langley and that she had a hand in Wilson being chosen for the assignment.
14. By the second week of July, both the information on Plame and her role in the Niger trip had been leaked to at least 2 reporters in an effort to discredit Wilson's false public claims, while Wilson himself penned an oped in the NY Times admitting he was the source for the Kristof article, and again making more false claims and allegations.
15. Not long after, the **** hits the fan when both Wilson and Plame proclaim that the Administration purposely disclosed her identity, knowing full well that she was a covert operative who's identity was classified. The WH promises to look into the matter and shortly there after, the Fitzgerald investigation begins.
16. After nearly 2 years, the investigation comes to a close, finding no evidence that the Administration was informed of, or had knowledge of, Plame's covert status at the CIA prior to disclosing her identity and involvement in Wilson's Niger assignment... without prior knowledge of her covert status, leaking her identity isn't a crime, so nobody was ever charged.

End of story... no conspiracy, just facts.

.

Re: FBI Reveals New Details About Its Probe Into Hillary Clinton's Use of Private Ema

Grim17 said:

WTF?

I never said or implied that... JFC man.

Click to expand...

Well then who said this:

"If the public finds out that the person telling the stories and making those shocking claims isn't an experienced, well trained CIA intelligence operative, but rather a former diplomat who's wife works for the CIA and used her influence to get him the job, many will question the credibility of his claims."

You just said Joe, the diplomat, used her influence to get him the job.

Further, you still have not clearly explained how outing his wife as a CIA official further discredits him, there is no logic in making her position known unless she was not "an experienced intel employee", she was in point of fact.....and he was a very distinguished diplomat. He was not hired on as a spy for covert action, he was on a classified fact finding mission, perfectly suited for a former ambassador, which is why he was brought up by her coworkers.

Re: FBI Reveals New Details About Its Probe Into Hillary Clinton's Use of Private Ema

Gimmesometruth said:

Well then who said this:

"If the public finds out that the person telling the stories and making those shocking claims isn't an experienced, well trained CIA intelligence operative, but rather a former diplomat who's wife works for the CIA and used her influence to get him the job, many will question the credibility of his claims."

You just said Joe, the diplomat, used her influence to get him the job.

Click to expand...

My God, you do have trouble understanding the written word.

Here... See if this helps:

"If the public finds out that the person (Joe Wilson) telling the stories and making those shocking claims (Joe Wilson) isn't an experienced, well trained CIA intelligence operative, but rather a former diplomat (Joe Wilson) who's wife (Valerie Plame) works for the CIA and used her (Valerie Plame) influence to get him (Joe Wilson) the job, many will question the credibility of his (Joe Wilson's) claims."

Does that help?

Further, you still have not clearly explained how outing his wife as a CIA official further discredits him, there is no logic in making her position known unless she was not "an experienced intel employee", she was in point of fact.....and he was a very distinguished diplomat. He was not hired on as a spy for covert action, he was on a classified fact finding mission, perfectly suited for a former ambassador, which is why he was brought up by her coworkers.

Click to expand...

I was about as clear as a person could be when I said:

Grim17 said:

When a trained, experienced intelligence operative is hand selected by the CIA to go undercover to gather intel based on their merit, it lends credibility to the stories they tell and to the claims they make, even shocking claims like the president lied to the American people. They assume that such a person is inside the loop and privy to inside intelligence information, so they tend to put credence in what they say. If the public finds out that the person telling the stories and making those shocking claims isn't an experienced, well trained CIA intelligence operative, but rather a former diplomat who's wife works for the CIA and used her influence to get him the job, many will question the credibility of his claims.

Click to expand...

Even the intelligence report on his trip described him as "A contact with excellent access who does not have an established reporting record".

The public naturally assumed that he must have been well trained at covert fact finding in order to have been selected by the CIA for such an important mission. With that belief comes a level of credibility in what he says. Finding out that the whole idea to send Wilson to Niger in the first place, came from his CIA wife who had pitched the idea in a memo she penned to one of her department heads, diminishes the credibility level of his public claims.

I just don't understand why this is such a difficult concept for you to grasp?

.

Re: FBI Reveals New Details About Its Probe Into Hillary Clinton's Use of Private Ema

Grim17 said:

My God, you do have trouble understanding the written word.

Here... See if this helps:

"If the public finds out that the person (Joe Wilson) telling the stories and making those shocking claims (Joe Wilson) isn't an experienced, well trained CIA intelligence operative, but rather a former diplomat (Joe Wilson) who's wife (Valerie Plame) works for the CIA and used her (Valerie Plame) influence to get him (Joe Wilson) the job, many will question the credibility of his (Joe Wilson's) claims."

Does that help?

Click to expand...

Let me see, yer repeating the quote, that has been repeated 4 times, where you say Wilson used his wife to get the job. You won't explain how he used her, you won't explain this insane conspiracy theory.

I was about as clear as a person could be when I said:Even the intelligence report on his trip described him as "A contact with excellent access who does not have an established reporting record".

The public naturally assumed that he must have been well trained at covert fact finding in order to have been selected by the CIA for such an important mission. With that belief comes a level of credibility in what he says. Finding out that the whole idea to send Wilson to Niger in the first place, came from his CIA wife who had pitched the idea in a memo she penned to one of her department heads, diminishes the credibility level of his public claims.

I just don't understand why this is such a difficult concept for you to grasp?

Click to expand...

It wasn't "covert" he was not undercover, using a false identity. He was known in the area BECAUSE HE WAS A FORMER AMBASSADOR APPOINTED BY GH BUSH. If his report was ignored because it supposedly shed no new light, how then did it "support" an mysterious claim for "recent" activity when the activity happened 3 years prior? That isn't recent at all.

Further, the idea that Iraq would try to purchase yellowcake from Niger, attempt to transport it back to Iraq....while it was under an embargo....is beyond belief.....since Iraq/Saddam already had over 500 metric tons sitting unused in the Tuwaitha nuclear complex.

Re: FBI Reveals New Details About Its Probe Into Hillary Clinton's Use of Private Ema

Gimmesometruth said:

Let me see, yer repeating the quote, that has been repeated 4 times, where you say Wilson used his wife to get the job. You won't explain how he used her, you won't explain this insane conspiracy theory.

Click to expand...

Again, I never said or implied any such thing, so I have no idea what in the hell you're babbling about.

It wasn't "covert" he was not undercover, using a false identity. He was known in the area BECAUSE HE WAS A FORMER AMBASSADOR APPOINTED BY GH BUSH. If his report was ignored because it supposedly shed no new light, how then did it "support" an mysterious claim for "recent" activity when the activity happened 3 years prior? That isn't recent at all.

Click to expand...

Public perception and facts are often at odds, and all your rationing won't change the facts... Many in the public bought hook, line and sinker, the BS that Joe Wilson was feeding them. In an effort to try and discredit the bogus accusations he was making, members of the Administration leaked to the media that Joe Wilson only got the mission because his CIA wife wrote a memo to her superiors recommending that they send him.

Further, the idea that Iraq would try to purchase yellowcake from Niger, attempt to transport it back to Iraq....while it was under an embargo....is beyond belief.....since Iraq/Saddam already had over 500 metric tons sitting unused in the Tuwaitha nuclear complex.

Click to expand...

That doesn't change the fact that Joe Wilson reported to the CIA, that Iraq had attempted to discuss the purchase of yellow cake uranium... Which happens to support, not debunk (as Wilson claimed) what the president said in his SOTU speech.

Re: FBI Reveals New Details About Its Probe Into Hillary Clinton's Use of Private Ema

Grim17 said:

Again, I never said or implied any such thing, so I have no idea what in the hell you're babbling about.

Click to expand...

Fine, understanding the subject of a sentence and the verb describing its action isn't yer bag. Understood.

Public perception and facts are often at odds, and all your rationing won't change the facts...

Click to expand...

My "rationing" Uh-oh, English issues rears its ugly head once again.

Many in the public bought hook, line and sinker, the BS that Joe Wilson was feeding them. In an effort to try and discredit the bogus accusations he was making, members of the Administration leaked to the media that Joe Wilson only got the mission because his CIA wife wrote a memo to her superiors recommending that they send him.

Click to expand...

Cool story bro, too bad it isn't the whole story...ie Douglas Rohn.

That doesn't change the fact that Joe Wilson reported to the CIA, that Iraq had attempted to discuss the purchase of yellow cake uranium... Which happens to support, not debunk (as Wilson claimed) what the president said in his SOTU speech.

Click to expand...

Really? Since the whole point was "recent activity of Iraq atomic development", how does an "attempt" 3 years prior fit in with "recent"......and again, why would Iraq go to all of the trouble of trying to get around an embargo when they already had more than they needed in Iraq already? They had the base material, the problem was the lack of facility to process the yellowcake. Further, the admin/IC already knew about the previous "attempt", it wasn't new news.

Re: FBI Reveals New Details About Its Probe Into Hillary Clinton's Use of Private Ema

Gimmesometruth said:

Cool story bro, too bad it isn't the whole story...

Click to expand...

You're right... This is the whole story;

1. Cheney wanted more intel on a foreign report that Iraq had a deal with Niger for uranium.
2. On 2/12/02, Plame wrote a memo to the DC in her department suggesting that they consider sending her husband to snoop around.
3. On 2/19/02, A meeting to discuss the idea with various CIA analysts, department heads, reps from INR and Wilson himself, was convened apparently by Plame who participated in the meeting.
4. On 2/20/02, They decided that the mission was a go and wilson left for Niger the next day.
5. Wilson was requested upon his arrival, and he agreed to, restrict his contact to only former officials and those in the private sector.
6. On 3/5/02, Wilson was back in the US and was debriefed by 2 intelligence officers at his home. Plame was there, but did not participate.
7. The report on Wilson's trip said nothing was uncovered indicating a sale between Iraq and Niger, but said Nigerian officials did not refute the possibility that Iraq had attempted to do so. The most significant information obtained was that according to the former Nigerian PM, a man approached him in 1999 to set up a meeting with him and an Iraqi delegation to discuss "expanding commercial relations", which the PM said meant to discuss the sale of yellowcake uranium.
8. The report on Wilson's trip used a code name for him and did not mention he was a former ambassador. The CIA and DIA didn't think the report added much to the issue and for that reason the report was never briefed to the VP.
9. President Bush makes his SOTU speech in January, 2003.
10. On 5/6/03, the first of many false claims and accusations by Wilson surface in the Nicolas Kristof article "Why the truth matters".
11. The Administration, including the VP, have no idea who the "former ambassador" in the article was, or about his trip to Niger, or anything about the information he claims he reported to the CIA, so they have Carl Ford from the INR investigate.
12. On 6/10/03, Ford issues a memo on Wilson, detailing who he was, when he was sent, why he was chosen and the information that he reported from his assignment. It reported that Wilson's wife, a "WMD manager" named "Valerie Wilson" had convened the meeting to discuss the trip and it marked the first time that the administration learned her name and her involvement in Wilson's assignment.
13. On 6/12/03, it's learned that Plame worked at a desk in non-proliferations at Langley and that she had a hand in Wilson being chosen for the assignment.
14. By the second week of July, both the information on Plame and her role in the Niger trip had been leaked to at least 2 reporters in an effort to discredit Wilson's false public claims, while Wilson himself penned an oped in the NY Times admitting he was the source for the Kristof article, and again making more false claims and allegations.
15. Not long after, the **** hits the fan when both Wilson and Plame proclaim that the Administration purposely disclosed her identity, knowing full well that she was a covert operative who's identity was classified. The WH promises to look into the matter and shortly there after, the Fitzgerald investigation begins.
16. After nearly 2 years, the investigation comes to a close, finding no evidence that the Administration was informed of, or had knowledge of, Plame's covert status at the CIA prior to disclosing her identity and involvement in Wilson's Niger assignment... without prior knowledge of her covert status, leaking her identity isn't a crime, so nobody was ever charged.

End of story... no conspiracy, just facts.

Re: FBI Reveals New Details About Its Probe Into Hillary Clinton's Use of Private Ema

Once a poster stops answering and begins repeating, they have reached a mental dead end.

Re: FBI Reveals New Details About Its Probe Into Hillary Clinton's Use of Private Ema

Gimmesometruth said:

Once a poster stops answering and begins repeating, they have reached a mental dead end.

Click to expand...

Hell, I've already laid all the facts out, complete with credible sources to back them up with.

All you've done is post a bunch of liberal talking points, backed up almost exclusively by the bogus and exaggerated information you obtained from HistoryCommons. One of the few times you provided information directly from a source linked to by HistoryCommons, it turned out to be completely bogus information.

So there's really nothing more to say... This conversation got heavy because you claimed that Plame's identity was leaked by the administration to purposely out her as a covert agent, yet in the pages and pages of discussion, you couldn't produce one document, one person's testimony, or anything credible at all showing that the administration had been informed she was covert... much in the same way Fitzgerald couldn't during his 2 year investigation.

.

Re: FBI Reveals New Details About Its Probe Into Hillary Clinton's Use of Private Ema

Grim17 said:

Hell, I've already laid all the facts out

Click to expand...

No, the point is that when you reach a dead end, when you start bypassing counterpoint, you lose the argument.

You lost the argument.

Further, the only folks that are still denying the absolute failure of the Bush admin in proving their case after the admin had control of ALL OF IRAQ, where they couldn't point to any of the WMD claims and say "see, we were right", are those who still pray at the alter of the neocon cult.

Re: FBI Reveals New Details About Its Probe Into Hillary Clinton's Use of Private Ema

Grim17 said:

So there's really nothing more to say... This conversation got heavy because you claimed that Plame's identity was leaked by the administration to purposely out her as a covert agent, yet in the pages and pages of discussion, you couldn't produce one document, one person's testimony, or anything credible at all showing that the administration had been informed she was covert... much in the same way Fitzgerald couldn't during his 2 year investigation.

Click to expand...

The only thing you have to cling to is an ignorance based argument. Your argument already conceded she was outed, the quibble is over whether those in the WH knew whether a CIA employee was covert or not. The fact that they knew she was in WINPAC should have clued them in, and one phone call would have cleared up any further "confusion". Anyone who understands the complexity of the IC knows you don't talk to reporters without KNOWING WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT....unless you have ulterior motives. We know the motives of the Cheney office, it was to invade no matter what. Anyone who has studied neocons knows this, nothing was going to stop them or get in their way....and they got their way, and we are still suffering the consequences. The only ones that are still defending them are like the last Japanese island soldiers who didn't get the message that they ultimately lost.