In 2002, Donald Trump Said He Supported Invading Iraq

cpwill said:

Trump fans won't care, because they don't care if their hero lies to them.

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HE said that on Stern's show noine times.

cpwill said:

Trump fans won't care, because they don't care if their hero lies to them.

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Well, in the Land of the Blind, a one-eyed man is King.

cpwill said:

Trump fans won't care, because they don't care if their hero lies to them.

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Trump is a big fat phony. It doesn't matter if my response to this post isn't anything of substance because Trump doesn't have any substance himself. He never answers any questions about specifics. People have tried in each debate. "How will you get this done?" Trump's response. "America doesn't win anymore. With me, America will win!" That's not an answer the American people deserve. Too bad the working class doesn't have time to think about that. They just like eat his BS up.

ModerateGOP said:

Trump is a big fat phony. It doesn't matter if my response to this post isn't anything of substance because Trump doesn't have any substance himself. He never answers any questions about specifics. People have tried in each debate. "How will you get this done?" Trump's response. "America doesn't win anymore. With me, America will win!" That's not an answer the American people deserve. Too bad the working class doesn't have time to think about that. They just like eat his BS up.

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His message on how he would replace Obamacare was incoherent rambling to the point where even I was embarrassed for the guy who asked.... but the questioner, apparently, wasn't. "Oh, you're going to make it great? Oh man, that's a great plan. See, why didnt the losers in Washington think of that before?" :doh

cpwill said:

His message on how he would replace Obamacare was incoherent rambling to the point where even I was embarrassed for the guy who asked.... but the questioner, apparently, wasn't. "Oh, you're going to make it great? Oh man, that's a great plan. See, why didnt the losers in Washington think of that before?" :doh

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What's dangerous about Trump's stance on Healthcare is people who have actually researched his past, know that he is in favor of single-payer government backed healthcare. So that means he would plan on gutting Obamacare, for something even worse! Notice he has backed away from saying what healthcare plans he is actually for because you can't say you are for single-payer in the Republican party. However, I'm not sure his fans would care even about that. I think Cruz is doing a pretty good job beating him up on the abortion issue and now the pope is attacking his faith lol! Two issues crucially important to SC. Cruz better beat him in SC since he is the only one who is even close.

One thing is for sure, any candidate on either side would be a goner if both the President and the Pope attacked them two days in a row. IDK what is going on anymore!

cpwill said:

Trump fans won't care, because they don't care if their hero lies to them.

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Of course they won't. Trump has cleverly appealed to the needs, hopes and aspirations of his audiences in casting himself as a sort of "super leader" who can overcome any obstacle. That he has no relevant leadership experience, has wildly shifting policy positions, and denigrates other candidates (many of whom have longstanding and principled policy positions and/or relevant leadership experience) is irrelevant. He has effectively transformed his audiences into followers who unconditionally accept his message. He has rendered the truth irrelevant.

It's sad, but that's the reality of the Trump candidacy. Moreover, with each victory, he effectively creates the impression that his success is inevitable and that strengthens the resolve of his followers.

The GOP leadership would do well to encourage all the weak candidates to drop out after South Carolina to leave Trump to face Senators Cruz and Rubio (the very likely 2nd and 3rd place finishers in the SC primary based on consistent polling), while encouraging Cruz and Rubio to tone down their attacks on one another despite their differences, so that whomever emerges would have the unified support of the anti-Trump voters. That would allow opposition to coalesce against Trump at a time when Trump still has not secured majority support and remains plagued by very high negative perceptions. But the GOP leadership (perhaps "leadership" is an oxymoron when one describes the RNC?) has been ineffectual since Trump announced his candidacy, so one can't expect such an outcome, even as the Party's brand is at substantial risk and the conservative movement is being divided among itself. Both developments pose long-term risks to Republican and conservative competitiveness. They also increase the prospects of de facto single party dominance at the national level.

cpwill said:

I have to admit, you have surprised me. You are not at all the typical Trump fan that we get here. A doff of my hat to you, sir.

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Huh??

Misinformed, and voting Trump because he doesn't like the other candidates?

Sounds like every other Trump fan to me.

Nilly said:

Huh??

Misinformed, and voting Trump because he doesn't like the other candidates?

Sounds like every other Trump fan to me.

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Willing to actually consider information. Most the Trumpeteers here are solidly in the personality cult, and reject facts of of hand.

cpwill said:

Willing to actually consider information. Most the Trumpeteers here are solidly in the personality cult, and reject facts of of hand.

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Reread the thread.

Can see your point, though I think he proved you right after you posted it. Will be interesting to see if he does actually change his mind, you're right that most Trump fans are impervious to information.

I have as much of a vested interest as you in preventing/avoiding a Trump nomination. If Clinton/Sanders democratically lose to Cruz/Rubio/Kasich in the general election then whilst I will likely vehemently oppose almost every decision they make I will understand that we are in the hands of intelligent, capable people who simply have arrived at a different ideology to mine given their view on the world. The same cannot be said for Donald J Trump.

cpwill said:

A) No, that's an assessment. We can think it, certainly. Bush, I could see the argument. Rubio? Meh, maybe, but unlikely. Cruz? Nah. You should look at their records - Rubio and Cruz are some of our most conservative Senators.

B) Trump's plan includes amnesty (don't take it from me, take it from his own son). Trump has a long history of supporting Democrat positions, and, in fact, has a long history of supporting Amnesty and open-borders. Heck, the man was attacking Mitt Romney from the left on the issue of immigration from 2012 through early 2015. His boast on why he supported Democrats is that he does and says what he has to in order to gain advantage.... and somehow no one then turns around and says "so, right now, you are saying and doing what you have to do in order to gain advantage?". Trump is probably equally as likely to sell you out on the border as Bush is, if not more, simply because that's his history.


There isn't a single Republican running who doesn't think that the VA has done an atrocious job and needs to be cleaned up. Heck, Jebs' son is an Afghan Vet. Trump is the only one on stage who thought that we ought to leave ISIS alone (then he changed his mind), but all of them now say that we should be tougher on terrorism (Kasich less so, and less convincingly). I think what is resonating with you is not what Trump is saying, but the tone with which he is saying it.

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The Trump phenom will go away once Bush, Kaisch, and Carson drop out. Their support will go to either Cruz, or probably Rubio, and that's when Trumps ceiling of 30 - 35% will seem less desirable. For me, I was and still am a Cruz supporter based on conservative principles, but I think the more this goes on, I am shifting my support to Rubio because I think he has the best chance over collecting and unifying the Republican party around him.


Tim-

clownboy said:

No he didn't. When he was asked he told Howard Freakin Stern, "Yeah, I guess so". A speculative answer, especially from Trump who normally declares. He said he made up his mind before the war, there's nothing to indicate he didn't.

This is more reaching by the anti-Trumpeteers.

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And it's not like it matters whether he flipped his opinion within just a couple of months, right? I mean, the only position that matters to Trump supporters is the position that he currently takes. And if he changes his stance in the next few months, Trump supporters will continue to support the man.

After all, Fox News opinion polling suggested that there is literally nothing that Trump could say that would force them to drop their support. Isn't that right CB?

cpwill said:

Trump fans won't care, because they don't care if their hero lies to them.

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Huh?

Anyway, sometimes you really have to pay close attention to what's being said to discern the truth. For example, from the OP article:

Trump has repeatedly claimed that he was against the Iraq War before it began, despite no evidence of him publicly stating this position. On Meet the Press, Trump said there weren’t many articles about his opposition because he wasn’t a politician at the time.

“Well, I did it in 2003, I said it before that,” Trump said of his opposition to invading Iraq. “Don’t forget, I wasn’t a politician. So people didn’t write everything I said. I was a businessperson. I was, as they say, a world-class businessperson. I built a great company, I employed thousands of people. So I’m not a politician. But if you look at 2003, there are articles. If you look in 2004, there are articles.”

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But if you look back before 2003, he's right. You won't find any newspaper (and probably now magazine) articles about his take on the Iraq War one way or another. But what Trump forgets is there's always TV and radio. Of course, he uses the excuse that he wasn't a politician at the time, but that's doesn't change the fact that he was (casually) for the war before he was against it.

Ah! Got 'cha!

(Sidenote: Watch out, cpwill. You may end up a looser for the forth time in your picks for the GOP presidency before too long if this and other things about Donald Trump's shaddy business practices and associations start to get out. )

lb_on_teh_cb said:

yeah this was true up until a few months ago when he suddenly complimented hillary on something and said a few other strange things and then i though damn dont go down the same road with all the other mealy-mouthed politicians - until then he was really telling it like it is, or at least how he saw it.

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And you haven't discerned that he's only pandering to the crowd? Saying just enough to stir people's angst but letting them tell him what's wrong and then he pounces on it?

Try this...listen to what he doesn't says.

"I'm gonna build a wall and have Mexico pay for it." How?

"I'm gonna make America great again" Never believed for a second America wasn't great. But I'll play along...what exactly do you plan to do to bring this country back to greatness? Remember: How did we get here? (HINT: For every great nation, another nation must fall. And so far, Trump has managed to piss off three: Russia, China and Mexico.)

Trump is bolster with no substance.

Objective Voice said:

"I'm gonna build a wall and have Mexico pay for it." How?

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yeah, this was silly - i dont see any need for mejico to pay for it. if we put troops on border and turned them back again and again and again, at some point they would stop trying after they figured out it wasn't worth their effort

Objective Voice said:

(HINT: For every great nation, another nation must fall.

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did Trump say this? makes no sense to me

Objective Voice said:

And so far, Trump has managed to piss off three: Russia, China and Mexico.)

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i dont care if he pisses off mejico. i believe current occupant has pissed off many more:

(Putin) YOU IS LIKE A LITTLE BOY STANDING IN THE CORNER!
AFRICAN MAN DONT YOU BE GETTIN NO IDEAS ABT GETTIN NO AUTOMOBILE, NOT EVEN A REFRIGERATOR!
we promise we wont look up you dress too many more times Engela
lets get a photo of Bibi's face and the bottom of my shoes

as for Trump one thing he said did bother me: "My supporters would vote for me even if i killed someone in broad daylight"
(or something like that) sounds like he doesnt have too much respect for his supporters there

Hicup said:

The Trump phenom will go away once Bush, Kaisch, and Carson drop out. Their support will go to either Cruz, or probably Rubio, and that's when Trumps ceiling of 30 - 35% will seem less desirable. For me, I was and still am a Cruz supporter based on conservative principles, but I think the more this goes on, I am shifting my support to Rubio because I think he has the best chance over collecting and unifying the Republican party around him.

Tim-

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He is also the only Republican who consistently beats Hillary in the polls.

I lean towards Cruz on Principle, but Rubio because I don't have to sacrifice principles, and he's far more electable. He's also more effective. Cruz fillibustered Obamacare, Rubio crippled it. So I decided that my measurement was less "does this guy agree with me 100% v 98%", and more "which of these two guys will actually get more conservative reform passed." Worth noting, too is that while Cruz has decided to run a campaign of focusing strictly on base-turnout. Like Reagan, however, Rubio has real potential to expand the party, and reach into communities that the Democrats assume belong to them. I think Republicans need, if not Rubio, then someone like him. It's time for a new Generation. If we can get Ryan in charge of the House and Rubio in charge of the White House, then we just need to replace McConnel. Perhaps with Lee.

I think, however, that Trump will be with us for some time. If Bush, Kasich, and Carson all drop out, then that still leaves three strong candidates with around a third-ish each (I think at that point it breaks out as around 35(T), 35(R), 30(C)), duking it out. That's a long ways off, though, politically. Kasich is probably going to stick around at least through March Hopefully at that point the two conservatives start wrecking Trump instead of each other, but South Carolina has not made me hopeful.

Objective Voice said:

Huh?

Anyway, sometimes you really have to pay close attention to what's being said to discern the truth. For example, from the OP article:

But if you look back before 2003, he's right. You won't find any newspaper (and probably now magazine) articles about his take on the Iraq War one way or another. But what Trump forgets is there's always TV and radio. Of course, he uses the excuse that he wasn't a politician at the time, but that's doesn't change the fact that he was (casually) for the war before he was against it.

Ah! Got 'cha!

(Sidenote: Watch out, cpwill. You may end up a looser for the forth time in your picks for the GOP presidency before too long if this and other things about Donald Trump's shaddy business practices and associations start to get out. )

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Hah! You only think that because you are a loser, like all the other nerds and stuff who went on to college and things. Donald Trump is a winner because winners win and it's called we have a country, okay? He's a manager, and he's going to manage the winning because he wins like a winner because winners are winning when they win and when they win they win like winners and I can pretend to be a winner too, or, at least, punish the winners who aren't me and only see him keeping on winning because YOURE FIRED.

Trump 2016

cpwill said:

Hah! You only think that because you are a loser, like all the other nerds and stuff who went on to college and things. Donald Trump is a winner because winners win and it's called we have a country, okay? He's a manager, and he's going to manage the winning because he wins like a winner because winners are winning when they win and when they win they win like winners and I can pretend to be a winner too, or, at least, punish the winners who aren't me and only see him keeping on winning because YOURE FIRED.

Trump 2016

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If I didn't know better, I'd swear you were rubbing my nose in it while pulling my leg.

Stop spinning my head in circles Trump-style. It's tremendously-annoying. :lol:

cpwill said:

And then went on to say that he thought we should have done it the first time.

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Which is what everyone from the republican party and most folks from the democrats think as well. Has nothing to do with his comments about the war.

cpwill said:

Trump lies to you. And you don't care. You will rationalize it away, because for you, the personality cult is more important than pesky reality. At least, in the face of a voter at the town hall he semi-back tracked on his own lie calling George Bush a liar, but now he claims he doesn't know (if you don't know, why did you claim it in the first place?).

What are you going to do when you are forced to realize that his immigration plan includes amnesty?

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Oh my, I know it frustrates you that no one is buying the anti-Trump rhetoric. Here's what I believe. I believe that he will negotiate any immigration plan from a power position and a republican sense of fairness with the good of the nation at heart.

clownboy said:

Which is what everyone from the republican party and most folks from the democrats think as well. Has nothing to do with his comments about the war.

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His contents about the war... Have nothing to do with the war...

Oh my, I know it frustrates you that no one is buying the anti-Trump rhetoric.

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:lamo Trumps own son, website, and Trump himself, all count as "anti Trump propaganda", because it's inconvenient.

You can't make this level of denial up, folks. You can only compare it to the people who also feel for the exact same BS from Obama back in 2008.

Here's what I believe. I believe that he will negotiate any immigration plan from a power position and a republican sense of fairness with the good of the nation at heart.

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[emoji38] yeah. He's a Light-Worker, and a community organizer, and now we are a community, and he's going to organize us...

Wait... This is familiar...


If there is any part of populism that is the most repellant to Americanism, it is the wholehearted search for and desire to be mastered by, The Great Leader. :roll: they don't care if he constantly changes positions, or if he lies to and uses them. They only cares that he be in charge, and offer himself as an avatar.

Trump has higher negatives than any r Republican running. Plenty of people see him for what he is.

cpwill said:

His contents about the war... Have nothing to do with the war...

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More games. Really, you can't see, the comment about the first Gulf War does not extend to the Second. Different wars.

cpwill said:

Trump has higher negatives than any r Republican running. Plenty of people see him for what he is.

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And then vote for him.

I greatly dislike Trump, but this does not bother me much.

1) The interview was in 2002, long before the invasion. A lot of things changed between then and the moment America went in.

2) It was a long time ago, people change their mind.

3) Maybe he lied...so what? I assume EVERY, SINGLE thing out of a politician' (or a politician wannabe) mouth is a flat out lie until I have factual proof to the contrary. I have virtually no respect for any of them so them lying is like catching a cold...it sucks but it is inevitable.

Quite frankly, anyone that is shocked that a politician might have lied is awfully naive for 2016, imo.

clownboy said:

More games. Really, you can't see, the comment about the first Gulf War does not extend to the Second. Different wars.

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No, the part where he said he supported the invasion is about this one.

And then vote for him.

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....no. Generally, either you love Trump of hate him, and more folks hate him. Last time I showed you the math on this, your response was to basically argue that math didn't count. Trump is very, very, very few people's second choice.