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‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Docs On

Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

Mycroft said:
The program spent 20 billion...that we didn't have. We had to borrow that money. The "return" won't even cover the interest.

But that's okay, eh? We won't be paying it back...our children won't be paying it back...heck, it won't ever get payed back. We'll just keep paying more and more interest.

Liberals are like the spend-thrift man or woman who gets a credit card and thinks it's free money.
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We've been borrowing at like zero percent interest for quite a while now.
 
Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

Deuce said:
We've been borrowing at like zero percent interest for quite a while now.
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Really?

Why are bond rates around 1.7% then?

Why are Treasuries above 3%?
 
Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

Lord of Planar said:
Really?

Why are bond rates around 1.7% then?

Why are Treasuries above 3%?
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This program didn't start today.
 
Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

So...

Does that apple taste like an orange to you?
 
Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

Lord of Planar said:
So...

Does that apple taste like an orange to you?
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Take the inflation rate into account and our borrowing rates have been incredibly low. Sometimes even a negative effective interest rate.
 
Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

zimmer said:
I think we should have the proponents of green energy pay for this... it's mostly Demokrats... so... let's start with Obama and his cadre of fools.
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OK then. Let's have the Republicans pay for Enron, the Dan River cleanup, pollution cleanup, and so forth.

By the way, since bankruptcies equate a failure of ideology, what does that say about the record number of oil company bankruptcies, racking up $2 billion in debts in 2015 alone?

Oil Bankruptcies Reach Highest Quarterly Level Since Recession - Bloomberg Business
 
Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

Deuce said:
We've been borrowing at like zero percent interest for quite a while now.
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What do you consider "quite a while"?

Also, new borrowing...even if it is at zero percent...is not the same as the interest the government must pay on the trillions in debt that it has borrowed.

In fiscal 2013, which ended Sept. 30, net interest payments on the debt totaled $222.75 billion, or 6.23% of all federal outlays.

(The government paid out an estimated $420.6 billion in interest, but that included interest credited to Social Security and other government trust funds, as well as a relatively small amount of offsetting investment income.)

By comparison, debt service was more than 15% of federal outlays in the mid-1990s; the share has fallen partly because lower rates have held down interest payments, but also because outlays have risen substantially: up 39.4% over the past decade.

5 facts about the national debt: What you should know | Pew Research Center
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Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

Visbek said:
OK then. Let's have the Republicans pay for Enron, the Dan River cleanup, pollution cleanup, and so forth.

By the way, since bankruptcies equate a failure of ideology, what does that say about the record number of oil company bankruptcies, racking up $2 billion in debts in 2015 alone?

Oil Bankruptcies Reach Highest Quarterly Level Since Recession - Bloomberg Business
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Wait..."bankruptcies equate a failure of ideology"???

What the heck does that mean? Is some particular ideology more prone to cause bankruptcies? I'd be interested to hear your justification for that statement.
 
Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

Absentglare said:
Really, republicans hand out $20 billion to their farmer friends every year for no reason at all, and they complain about $2 billion green energy investment going sour like it's the end of the world ?

Give me a break.
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Shh, don't mess with the real 'Muricans.
 
Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

Absentglare said:
Really, republicans hand out $20 billion to their farmer friends every year for no reason at all, and they complain about $2 billion green energy investment going sour like it's the end of the world ?

Give me a break.
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Then it seems to me that you should be concentrating on the reduction of the 20 billion scam you perceive rather than using it as a justification for a two billion scam.
 
Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

Absentglare said:
Really, republicans hand out $20 billion to their farmer friends every year for no reason at all, and they complain about $2 billion green energy investment going sour like it's the end of the world ?

Give me a break.
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We have had agricultural subsidies in this country since 1922. I think you can criticize every intervening president of both parties for doing the same thing. Actually, you should be criticizing congress, not any president.
 
Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

Mycroft said:
Wait..."bankruptcies equate a failure of ideology"???
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The OP is suggesting that the failures of these businesses is "created by their ideology."

If he takes that belief seriously, then he ought to explain why so many oil companies going bankrupt this year does not reflect badly on his own ideology.
 
Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

leoborn said:
Since our government made the loan, send the bill to the government running things in Spain, and let them straighten the scam out with their bank. Taxpayers in the US didn't okay this deal! Once their government has to pay for failures, maybe somebody will start paying attention to who's making money available to businesses in their country, and on what terms, and some oversight will be mandatory. These are unelected people in our government who are wantonly squandering our money. Who gave them the authority to spend our tax dollars?
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The electorate gave Obama a second term and his 'Czars' pretty much have free rein. It seems the majority of the electorate liked what they saw during his first term, despite the massive increase in debt and nothing to show for it, and the shrinking middle class. Those trillions of borrowed dollars must be going somewhere, and it ain't to the infrastructure.
 
Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

jimbo said:
Then it seems to me that you should be concentrating on the reduction of the 20 billion scam you perceive rather than using it as a justification for a two billion scam.
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Why? Because 20 billion is a really big number ?
 
Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

fmw said:
We have had agricultural subsidies in this country since 1922. I think you can criticize every intervening president of both parties for doing the same thing. Actually, you should be criticizing congress, not any president.
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I criticize republicans because they are the ones who have been continuing to fight for the subsidies. These subsidies have the direct result of taking money from the US government and distributing it to farmers.

At least green energy initiatives are a worthy cause, not just "welfare" for people who already have jobs but are friends to republicans.

Besides, we often make money off of these business loans. They are not like the handouts republicans fight to give their friends.
 
Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

Grant said:
The electorate gave Obama a second term and his 'Czars' pretty much have free rein. It seems the majority of the electorate liked what they saw during his first term, despite the massive increase in debt and nothing to show for it, and the shrinking middle class. Those trillions of borrowed dollars must be going somewhere, and it ain't to the infrastructure.
Click to expand...
What the majority of the electorate saw, was a President attempting to correct an inherited economy that was the worst since the great depression, and watched as he was stymied at nearly every attempt to right-it by the party that got us into the recession.

And that's why the people ratified another term for him, bringing us to this point: The first interest rate increase since the former controlling party held the White House.

The economy is far from perfect, but it is sliding along mostly in the right direction. And it's far better than in 2008! Far better! Which is why I fear another Republican in office, dashing it all once again. :doh
 
Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

Absentglare said:
Why? Because 20 billion is a really big number ?
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Heck, I think 2 Billion is a really big number. Don't you?
 
Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

Mycroft said:
Heck, I think 2 Billion is a really big number. Don't you?
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If every man woman and child identified in in the latest US population figures handed over @ $.63, you would raise $2 billion.

$2 billion is a mountain of money. Sadly, people have become so accustomed to seeing "billion" used in reports they don't have a clue what it amounts to.

Spend $1,000 a day, every day, and in @ 2 3/4 years, you will have gone through $1 million. To spend $1 billion at the same rate would take over 2,700 years.
 
Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

Chomsky said:
What the majority of the electorate saw, was a President attempting to correct an inherited economy that was the worst since the great depression, and watched as he was stymied at nearly every attempt to right-it by the party that got us into the recession.

And that's why the people ratified another term for him, bringing us to this point: The first interest rate increase since the former controlling party held the White House.

The economy is far from perfect, but it is sliding along mostly in the right direction. And it's far better than in 2008! Far better! Which is why I fear another Republican in office, dashing it all once again. :doh
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Your alternate view of history doesn't help you make your point very well. The majority of the electorate were so disgusted with the liberal/progressives two years after President Obama took office, they gave Democrats in the House of Representatives their worse loss of seats in any election since 1938.
 
Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

Mycroft said:
Heck, I think 2 Billion is a really big number. Don't you?
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Yes, but we have a really, really big economy.
 
Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

ocean515 said:
If every man woman and child identified in in the latest US population figures handed over @ $.63, you would raise $2 billion.

$2 billion is a mountain of money. Sadly, people have become so accustomed to seeing "billion" used in reports they don't have a clue what it amounts to.

Spend $1,000 a day, every day, and in @ 2 3/4 years, you will have gone through $1 million. To spend $1 billion at the same rate would take over 2,700 years.
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Greetings, ocean515. :2wave:

I'm quite bad at math, but that's okay because I know you and others are not. . . how long would at take to pay off just $ one trillion of the $18 trillion dollars we are in debt for - that no one seems to care about? :wow:
 
Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

polgara said:
Greetings, ocean515. :2wave:

I'm quite bad at math, but that's okay because I know you and others are not. . . how long would at take to pay off just $ one trillion of the $18 trillion dollars we are in debt for - that no one seems to care about? :wow:
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Hi Polgara

One trillion? At $1,000 per day, about 2.74 billion years.
 
Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

ocean515 said:
Hi Polgara

One trillion? At $1,000 per day, about 2.74 billion years.
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Or over 1.1 million miles into space if stacked in one dollar bills.
 
Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

Grant said:
Or over 1.1 million miles into space if stacked in one dollar bills.
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I don't have a big enough wallet then......
 
Re: ‘Four Times Greater Than Solyndra’: DOE Drops 1,200 Pages Of Heavily Redacted Doc

Visbek said:
The OP is suggesting that the failures of these businesses is "created by their ideology."

If he takes that belief seriously, then he ought to explain why so many oil companies going bankrupt this year does not reflect badly on his own ideology.
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Oil company going bankrupt because of the steep fall in oil prices on the world market. That's mostly private money at risk.

Government supported green tech companies going bankrupt, that public monies at risk There's one of the differences.

I think it fair to say that government support of the green tech companies was mostly driven by ideology.

... Abengoa, a Spanish-based green energy company... reports Abengoa was running into big financial problems, despite being given generous taxpayer-backed loans.

DOE even redacted parts of documents discussing the production capacity of Abengoa’s Hugoton biofuel plant and how much electricity it would co-generate during operations — oddly, this exact information is publicly available on DOE’s website.

Abengoa filed for bankruptcy protection in Spanish court earlier this month, and financial records show the company’s largest single creditor is the U.S. taxpayer.

The U.S. Federal Financing Bank held $2.3 billion in Abengoa’s debt as of Sept. 31. Taxpayers could be on the hook if the company goes under.

“To put this in perspective, the Abengoa bankruptcy exposes taxpayers to losses four times greater than Solyndra, making it the largest failure of the DOE green loan program to date,”

they had not sold a single gallon of cellulosic ethanol despite the plant being up and running for a year.Abengoa has since shut down its biofuels plant and laid off dozens of workers since they filed for bankruptcy. The company holds more than $9.8 billion in debt.

DOE Gives TheDCNF 1,200 Pages Redacted Docs On Green Loans | The Daily Caller
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Now, why would the DOE redact so much of the documents about the government green loans?
Isn't that a valid question to ask? What are they hiding? Who's ordering them to hide it?

Why is a plant designed to produce cellulosic ethanol, one that's been up and running for an entire year, why hasn't it produced a single gallon of results?
 
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